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Re: [ARSCLIST] 16" transcription player on ebay
I'm with Steve on this - I've neither seen (measured with a microscope)
nor heard (validated by ear) a 1 mil groove ("microgroove") on a 16-inch
transcription disc.
16-inch grooves generally range from 2.1 to 3.0 mil, the bulk being
2.3, 2.5 or 2.8 mil.
The 12-inch home recordings can be a bit narrower, where occasionally
I've seen 1.8 mil. But that's the very narrowest I've ever encountered,
and still not in microgroove territory.
Dictation discs like the Gray Autograph or Edison Voicewriter will run
0.85 to 0.90 mil. These are best played with a microgroove stylus or
something a bit smaller.
Eric Jacobs
The Audio Archive, Inc.
tel: 408.221.2128
fax: 408.549.9867
mailto:EricJ@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
-----Original Message-----
From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
[mailto:ARSCLIST@xxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Steven Smolian
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 5:51 PM
To: ARSCLIST@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] 16" transcription player on ebay
I'be never seen a non-experimental 16" 33 that used a 1 mil groove- always a
2.5 mil, though I own a couple cut at 1 mil by Mirko Paneko in the later
40s.
I visited him in Stamford, I believe it was, a few times. He claimed to be
the inventor of the LP and that Goldmark instigated the paperwork. Mirko
died before I could persue this in any depth.
His name is now widely forgotten, but in his day he was well known for
making audio systems for the rich, musical and famous, Toscanini being among
that number.
Steve Smolian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Fine" <tflists@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <ARSCLIST@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 8:01 PM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] 16" transcription player on ebay
> Hi Doug:
>
> This was a common way of distributing serialized radio programs at one
> time. The Bill Cosby Radio Program, for one, was put together and
> duplicated at my father's studio and radio stations could be on the list
> for either a weekly reel of tape or a weekly 16" LP record.
>
> DO NOT PLAY THIS RECORD ON AN OLD "TRANSCRIPTION PHONOGRAPH" from the
> Pre-LP Era! The stylus will be too wide and track too heavy and thus ruin
> it on just one pass! Please read the previous sentence again and do not
> proceed unless you clearly understand what I'm saying. An LP (microgroove)
> record will be ruined by a wide-groove stylus tracking at some heavy
> weight like has been mentioned by others on this list. However, if this
> record is indeed a pre-LP record, it's fine on the older equipment. I
> can't tell for sure from your photos but you specifically say "LP" several
> times in your text, so I'm assuming you're talking about microgroove
> records.
>
> If you do indeed have an LP, the reason a 16" would be distributed to
> radio stations is that they would have turntables capable of that size and
> more time can be fit on a 16" side at 33 1/3 RPM. So, for instance, with
> the Bill Cosby program, you could fit 5 weekly shows of about 6 minutes
> each, cut super-loud for AM radio. Thus, two weeks of shows could be
> pressed on one 16" record.
>
> I hope this helps. If you don't have a microgroove record, you don't need
> to heed my warning above, but I'd still play something potentially rare
> like this on a good rig and ... CLEAN IT GENTLY WITH A NON-ALCOHOL
> SOLUTION before playing it.
>
> You might consider contacting an expert on grooved disk transfers like Art
> Shifrin (www.shifrin.net).
>
> -- Tom Fine
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Doug Henkle" <henkle@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <ARSCLIST@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 9:42 AM
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] 16" transcription player on ebay
>
>
>> At 12:21 PM 09-04-2007 -0500, you wrote:
>>>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190149285261&ssPageNam
e=ADME:B:SS:US:1
>>
>> I have only one 16" LP which, until the above, I thought was
>> unplayable by anything still in existence. I found it at a Wisconsin
>> record show several years ago. Could anybody point me at a resource,
>> on-line or a book, that gives historical details about transcription
>> discs that might answer my questions?
>>
>> What was their purpose, radio play only, or something else?
>> Why were they made in 16" instead of 12" or 10"?
>> What years were they made?
>> What format were transcriptions made in before and after the 16" LP
>> format?
>>
>> I have scanned the labels of my red vinyl LP
>> http://www.folklib.net/graphics/ls/uw_band_16in_lp_prog59.jpg
>> http://www.folklib.net/graphics/ls/uw_band_16in_lp_prog60.jpg
>> The University of Wisconsin Band Program
>> Program No. 59 / 60
>> 33-1/3 RPM Outside Start
>> Release only during the period from
>> April 10 through April 16 / April 17 through April 23
>> This program is identified as a transcription
>> both in the opening and close, and no further
>> identification is necessary
>>
>> The dead wax markings have,
>> UW BAND 59 (block letters all caps)
>> U. of W. Band #60 (handwritten script)
>>
>> I gather there must be at least 58 other sides just like this, and
>> maybe more? There is no year mentioned. The paper sleeve has,
>> American Cancer Society / 1948 Drive (back side is blank)
>> http://www.folklib.net/graphics/ls/uw_band_16in_sleeve_a.jpg
>> http://www.folklib.net/graphics/ls/uw_band_16in_sleeve_b.jpg
>> http://www.folklib.net/graphics/ls/uw_band_16in_sleeve_c.jpg
>> http://www.folklib.net/graphics/ls/uw_band_16in_sleeve_d.jpg
>>
>> According to the TimeLine of Sound and Broadcast Technology,
>> http://www.classicthemes.com/technologyTimeline.html
>> the first LP was made by Columbia in 1948 and presumably no one else
>> until 1949 or after. Anyone have any idea what year this LP might have
>> been created? Thanks.
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> Doug Henkle - mailto:henkle@xxxxxxxxx
>> P.O. Box 1447, Oshkosh, WI 54903-1447
>>
>> http://www.folklib.net/index/wi/
>> FolkLib Index - Wisconsin Music Site Map
>> (everything related to Wisconsin Music and Musicians)
>>