Re: [ARSCLIST] commerical reels history (was Boston Pops question)

[Tom Fine <tflists@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Uh, yeah. Try a modern CD instead of a 50-year-old record. But again, to each their own.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Lennick" <dlennick@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <ARSCLIST@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 6:25 PM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] commerical reels history (was Boston Pops question)


> Matter of fact I'm just listening to Tabor on what may be a first pressing. 
> Major breakup on the drums and tuttis about 5 minutes in..cleaner with a .7 mil 
> stylus (I first tried a 1-mil). Very clean pressing, no surface noise.
>
> dl
>
> Tom Fine wrote:
> > Well, to each their own. The critics did not agree with you in most 
> > cases. The Mercury mono reissue CD's sold very well worldwide and are 
> > now available again as a 4 or 5CD (forgot which) set, all the Kubeliks. 
> > I personally greatly prefer the CD's to the original LPs (which we have 
> > excellent-condition copies of). Again, everyone's entitled to an 
> > opinion. I'll grant you that the master tapes were over 40 years old in 
> > 1996, but it was amazing how they played back OK. The LPs noisy surface 
> > may mask some of the limitations of tape, machine and microphone.
> >
> > If the "Tabor" is what I heard, we have very different opinions. I heard 
> > all sorts of digital artifacts, obvious tape degradation and a 
> > non-realistic stereo pickup. But again, to each their own.
> >
> > -- Tom Fine
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Abrams" 
> > <steveabrams@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <ARSCLIST@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 10:18 AM
> > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] commerical reels history (was Boston Pops question)
> >
> >
> > > What I am saying is that the Mercury Living Presence CD issued in 1996 
> > > of "Ma Vlast" does not sound good.  I remember the LPs sounding better 
> > > though I only had them on a cheap reissue in the UK on the Wing 
> > > label.  The stereo issue of "Tabor" that I know came out last year on 
> > > Music & Arts and was restored by Mark Obert-Thorne.  It sounds much 
> > > better than the mono version.
> > >
> > > Steve Abrams
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Fine" 
> > > <tflists@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > To: <ARSCLIST@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 3:02 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] commerical reels history (was Boston Pops 
> > > question)
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi Steve:
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for the RCA clarification. It was the same set of sessions I 
> > > > thought but different works.
> > > >
> > > > Yes, Bert Whyte was permitted by Mercury to bring his 2-track 
> > > > Magnecorder and place a pair of U-47 mics at the Kubelik session. 
> > > > Some of the tapes were issued on a small label CD in recent years and 
> > > > sound terrible to my ears. Could be the tape is deteriorated, could 
> > > > be the playback or transfer equipment wasn't good. Could be the 
> > > > engineer didn't properly line up the staggered tracks, etc. They 
> > > > definitely over-used digital noise-zapping tools so there are 
> > > > digi-artifacts galore. I imagine the tapes sounded better when they 
> > > > were new and played back on that Magnecorder.
> > > >
> > > > Bert's tapes were a personal experiment. Never intended for release. 
> > > > Not particularly praised or lauded by the professionals involved in 
> > > > the session. In fairness to Bert, this was pioneering in many 
> > > > respects, as was his pioneering use of magnetic film recording for 
> > > > Everest.  Bert wrote a really nice column for Radio & TV News in 1956 
> > > > about the day he was invited to the studio to hear the first Mercury 
> > > > 3-track tapes that were ready for release. He was treated to a 
> > > > full-monty 3-speaker extravaganza.
> > > >
> > > > -- Tom Fine
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Abrams" 
> > > > <steveabrams@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > To: <ARSCLIST@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 8:18 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] commerical reels history (was Boston Pops 
> > > > question)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Not quite.  The Munch Damnation of Faust in February 1954 was 
> > > > > recorded in stereo but only issued in mono. Something happened to 
> > > > > the stereo tapes. The Reiner recordings of  Heldenleben and Salome's 
> > > > > dance were recorded on March 6th.  Zarathustra came two days later 
> > > > > on the 8th.  However - and you should be able to shed some light on 
> > > > > this - some stereo recordings were made by Bert Whyte at the 
> > > > > December 1952 sessions of the Chicago Symphony recording Ma Vlast 
> > > > > under Kubelik.  'Tabor' recorded on December 6th has recently been 
> > > > > issued on Music and Arts in a transfer by Obert-Thorne. The very 
> > > > > unpleasant overload distortion on the Mercury Living Presence mono 
> > > > > set, very evident on the CD issue, is not evident in the stereo 
> > > > > version.
> > > > >
> > > > > Steve Abrams
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Fine" 
> > > > > <tflists@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > To: <ARSCLIST@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 12:10 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] commerical reels history (was Boston Pops 
> > > > > question)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > I'd be interested to know what's on them and who released them. I 
> > > > > > do not believe you'll find that they are in fact 2T stereo. They 
> > > > > > are likely half-track (2-sided) mono. If they are stereo, it would 
> > > > > > be very interesting to know who put them out as in 1952 only a few 
> > > > > > people were experimenting with 2-channel stereo recording of music. 
> > > > > > No major labels yet, although I believe RCA started making 2T 
> > > > > > masters in 1954 or even 1953 -- I think Zarathustra with Reiner was 
> > > > > > the first 2T session.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -- Tom Fine
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Palmer" 
> > > > > > <vdalhart@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > > To: <ARSCLIST@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 12:29 AM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] commerical reels history (was Boston Pops 
> > > > > > question)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >    I bought my first 2 track tapes for my reel recorder/player in 
> > > > > > > the Base Exchange in Sidi-Slimane, Morocco in 1952.  I still have 
> > > > > > > a couple of them in fact.   Jack
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Fine" 
> > > > > > > <tflists@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > > > To: <ARSCLIST@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 9:40 AM
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] commerical reels history (was Boston Pops 
> > > > > > > question)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Ampex developed their own, was developed by Leon Wortman in NY 
> > > > > > > > and detailed in a 1951 Radio & TV News article. Wortman's line 
> > > > > > > > made full-track or half-track tapes. Commercial half-track tapes 
> > > > > > > > were available as early as 1951 or 1952, but there was only a 
> > > > > > > > very small consumer market for reel to reel machines at that 
> > > > > > > > point. > Because this was a new format sold at a premium price, a 
> > > > > > > > lot of QC attention was paid by the reputable companies in this 
> > > > > > > > era, so the net quality is very high. Akin to what happened when 
> > > > > > > > stereo LPs came along.
> > > > > > > .
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
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