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Re: [ARSCLIST] Vanguard Classics reappears in 2 cd sets

Tom,

I got the same information a few years back about the films being in Germany, although it wasn't really definative. This was prior to the SACD project that Universal started.

I never really got a straight answer on the Everest material, although one person I spoke with was of the opinion that the films were in bad shape (as in, the oxide was falling off the base). I was never able to confirm this, but given the history of how many record companies have dealt with their masters, I wouldn't be surprised.

As you point out, SACD sales have been less than staller, so I don't look for any interest on the parts of the record labels any time soon.

In regards to the Command material, I would once again be interested specifically in the 3 track film masters for the L/C/R spread, as opposed to the 2 channel mixdowns, even though they may at this point be in better condition than the film originals.

In any event, it's truly a shame that nothing is being done to preserve what is left of the material (if any). (I am making an assumption that whoever owns the rights haven't done anything).

Although a market for the material may not exist at the moment, who knows what might happen 50 years from now.

--Scott


Quoting Tom Fine <tflists@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:

Hi Scott:

Last I heard, all the films that still exist are in the vault in
Germany. I don't want to speculate what condition anything is in. As
you know, Universal made 3-channel SACD's of some Mercury films in
Germany. As I understand it, the SACD project is not active right now.
No Command films were ever turned into CD's or SACD's that I know of. I
was told they are not in good shape. I don't know any facts -- even
second-hand -- about the Everest films.

I should point out that from everything I've read, SACD sales have been
underwhelming so don't count on record companies having too much
interest to spend too much for that kind of thing.

Regarding the Command material, if 2-track "cutting masters" were made,
it could be reissued for less production costs. This was what was done
with the Virgil Fox material. Though one generation removed from the
master films, the 2-tracks will sound a lot better than a lot of stuff
that came later.

-- Tom Fine

----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott D. Smith" <lists@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <ARSCLIST@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 2:12 PM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Vanguard Classics reappears in 2 cd sets


Hi Tom,

A few years ago I attempted to research what the situation was
regarding the condition of both the Everest and Mercury catalog that
existed on 35mm film, and ran into a brick wall on both accounts. I
never got to the Command material.

My intention at the time was to try and determine if there was
material suitable for eventual release in three channel on DVD-A (this
was based on what I knew of the mike techniques employed by your
father and Bob Eberenz at the time).

I was stonewalled by the idiots in licensing in both regards, and
never got any straight answers as to the condition or whereabouts of
the film material (other than what I knew of the condition of the
Mercury material used for the CD reissues supervised by your mother).

It is truly sad that we may never get to hear what was really on the
masters at this point.

Scott Smith

Chicago Audio Works, Inc.

Quoting Tom Fine <tflists@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:

Hi David:

This is great info, I'm certianly not going to berate you.

I can't understand what "last of its kind" machine Omega was claiming
to use. I had heard they used 3-track tapes played back on an Ampex
3200 transport with MR-70 heads and electronics. If their "last of its
kind" was indeed playing films, it was not near last of its kind.
3-track mag-film machines are still in use all over the place. In NY,
one need only go to Astoria to see masses of mag-film machines in daily
use.

Whatever those guys out in CA told you is probably closer to the truth
than my 3rd-hand info.

Hey, if someone on this list has a viable reissue label, let's talk
about Command Classics. I think Universal wants a pretty hefty units
commitment, so it's gotta be someone with some marketing and
distribution abilities. A 500 or 1000 unit release won't cut it with
those guys.

-- Tom Fine

----- Original Message ----- From: "David Lewis" <davlew@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <ARSCLIST@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 2:38 PM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Vanguard Classics reappears in 2 cd sets


Then what did DCC use to make thier reissues,a few years back?

Tom Fine <tflists@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:  This is the key fact about
Everest, from the Vanguard Classics website:

------------------------------------
WHAT ABOUT EVEREST?

That's the most asked question from consumers who visit our site. When
Artemis Records purchased
Vanguard Classics from the Omega Records Group in 2003, we declined to
purchase the license to the
Everest label held by Omega. We know that many of you are looking for the
catalog of recordings
available from Everest, but Vanguard Classics no longer distributes the
Everest label.

------------------------------------
(Tom continues...)
As I understand it, and I might be wrong ...

Everest is now owned by Universal, and Omega no longer exists as a working
entity so they no longer
have a license to release any Everest recordings. Universal also owns the
libraries of the only two
other labels to extensively use 35mm mag-film, Mercury (which Universal
acquired as part of
Polygram) and Command (which was owned by former MCA group that morphed into
Universal, acquired by
MCA as part of ABC Records).

As I understand it, and again I might be wrong, Omega made their 3ch SACD's
from the backup 3-track
tapes (or the original sessions were done on tape, not film), not from
Everest's magnetic films,
which I've been told are in terrible condition and many are not around
anymore.
****

I remember speaking with Duane Martuge, who was working as a rep for
Omega/Everest/Vanguard Classics when they first rolled out the Everest
product line in about 1996 or so. I met him at the Allegro Conference. Duane
said that they **did** work from the Everest films and utilized a machine at
Sony that "was the last of its kind" to play back the films. Apparently,
this machine was mothballed just as the Everest project reached completion.
At one point Omega/Everest was including a little insert with photos within
the Everest CD releases to show how they did it technically. But do note
that the re-issue program was very limited - perhaps only 8-16 short CDs
ever resulted from it. So Tom's assertion that "they are in terrible
condition and may not be around anymore" might well be correct. The
Northridge earthquake also damaged a great many of the Everest masters - a
pity - many reels were bent in half.

Tom:
Some of the Everest jazz stuff has turned up on a small label the name of
which escapes me (Woody
Herman, Tito Puente and some others). If I recall correctly, they noted that
the material was
licensed from Universal, which backs up my belief that Everest is now owned
by Universal.

The DCC reissues of Everest Jazz material were supplied by Bernie Solomon,
who was part of Everest initially and also had a share in DCC. These would
have been taken from tapes, and I wish that there had been more of them done
than the couple that appeared. At the time at which I met Bernie, in the
late 1990s, he still owned a large part of the Everest catalogue, and had
issued some of the classical items on a terrible, but persistent, label
called Bescol (i.e. "Bernie E. Solomon Company Limited" or something like
that) and had leased these and still more to LaserLight. Bernie hasn't been
dead a very long time, and if Artemis/Vanguard decided to pass on the
Everest classical catalogue, perhaps it has reverted to his, or someone
else's, estate. Remember that Bernie Solomon (Everest) and Seymour Solomon
(Vanguard) were brothers, so this might complicate matters of legacy
considerably. If Universal purchased Everest, I have yet to hear of it, but
they don't crow very loudly when they make such acquisitions.

Tom:

I wish there was enough interest
in the Command orchestral stuff to license and reissue some of it. The
Pittsburgh/Steinberg stuff
was really good.

***
I am SO with you there, brother! I remember for my ninth Christmas I told my
parents I wanted Stravinsky conducting his three big ballets. I got the Le
Sacre and Firebird LPs but there was no Petrushka, so Mom and Dad persuaded
me to settle for the $1.99 Pittsburgh/Steinberg performance on Westminister
Gold. I grew to love it so much I never went back to look for a Petrushka
with Stravinsky conducting. The Schubert symphony disc in that Command
series was also just astounding.

Finally, I just wanted to say that I have discussed these topics before only
to be berated on this list for repeating what guys like Martuge, Steve
Hoffmann and Bernie Solomon said to me. Bear in mind that the office for DCC
was not far from where I worked (as the classical guy at the Tower Records
in Woodland Hills.) PLEASE - do not come on here and tell me I'm a bleeping
liar and how could I stand to circulate such myths. I have no idea why these
guys would say such things, but I was a good account for them and perhaps
they put a little gloss on it. They did seem surprised that I seemed to know
so much about their back catalogue and may have been a bit guarded about it.
But I used to see Bernie in the store two and three times a week, and I made
a point of remembering whatever he told me.

David N. Lewis
Assistant Classical Editor, All Music Guide

My life is the clearest proof that if you have talent, determination and
luck, you will make it in the end: Never Give Up. - Sir Georg Solti

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