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Re: [ARSCLIST] Vanguard Classics reappears in 2 cd sets
I must be having a senior moment...but I can't remember what SACD refers to.
Don Chichester
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott D. Smith <lists@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: ARSCLIST@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 22:01:54 -0500
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Vanguard Classics reappears in 2 cd sets
Tom,
I got the same information a few years back about the films being in Germany, although it wasn't really definative. This was prior to the SACD project that Universal started.
I never really got a straight answer on the Everest material, although one person I spoke with was of the opinion that the films were in bad shape (as in, the oxide was falling off the base). I was never able to confirm this, but given the history of how many record companies have dealt with their masters, I wouldn't be surprised.
As you point out, SACD sales have been less than staller, so I don't look for any interest on the parts of the record labels any time soon.
In regards to the Command material, I would once again be interested specifically in the 3 track film masters for the L/C/R spread, as opposed to the 2 channel mixdowns, even though they may at this point be in better condition than the film originals.
In any event, it's truly a shame that nothing is being done to preserve what is left of the material (if any). (I am making an assumption that whoever owns the rights haven't done anything).
Although a market for the material may not exist at the moment, who knows what might happen 50 years from now.
--Scott
Quoting Tom Fine <tflists@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:
> Hi Scott:
>
> Last I heard, all the films that still exist are in the vault in
> Germany. I don't want to speculate what condition anything is in. As
> you know, Universal made 3-channel SACD's of some Mercury films in
> Germany. As I understand it, the SACD project is not active right now.
> No Command films were ever turned into CD's or SACD's that I know of. I
> was told they are not in good shape. I don't know any facts -- even
> second-hand -- about the Everest films.
>
> I should point out that from everything I've read, SACD sales have been
> underwhelming so don't count on record companies having too much
> interest to spend too much for that kind of thing.
>
> Regarding the Command material, if 2-track "cutting masters" were made,
> it could be reissued for less production costs. This was what was done
> with the Virgil Fox material. Though one generation removed from the
> master films, the 2-tracks will sound a lot better than a lot of stuff
> that came later.
>
> -- Tom Fine
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott D. Smith" <lists@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <ARSCLIST@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 2:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Vanguard Classics reappears in 2 cd sets
>
>
> Hi Tom,
>
> A few years ago I attempted to research what the situation was
> regarding the condition of both the Everest and Mercury catalog that
> existed on 35mm film, and ran into a brick wall on both accounts. I
> never got to the Command material.
>
> My intention at the time was to try and determine if there was
> material suitable for eventual release in three channel on DVD-A (this
> was based on what I knew of the mike techniques employed by your
> father and Bob Eberenz at the time).
>
> I was stonewalled by the idiots in licensing in both regards, and
> never got any straight answers as to the condition or whereabouts of
> the film material (other than what I knew of the condition of the
> Mercury material used for the CD reissues supervised by your mother).
>
> It is truly sad that we may never get to hear what was really on the
> masters at this point.
>
> Scott Smith
>
> Chicago Audio Works, Inc.
>
> Quoting Tom Fine <tflists@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:
>
>> Hi David:
>>
>> This is great info, I'm certianly not going to berate you.
>>
>> I can't understand what "last of its kind" machine Omega was claiming
>> to use. I had heard they used 3-track tapes played back on an Ampex
>> 3200 transport with MR-70 heads and electronics. If their "last of its
>> kind" was indeed playing films, it was not near last of its kind.
>> 3-track mag-film machines are still in use all over the place. In NY,
>> one need only go to Astoria to see masses of mag-film machines in daily
>> use.
>>
>> Whatever those guys out in CA told you is probably closer to the truth
>> than my 3rd-hand info.
>>
>> Hey, if someone on this list has a viable reissue label, let's talk
>> about Command Classics. I think Universal wants a pretty hefty units
>> commitment, so it's gotta be someone with some marketing and
>> distribution abilities. A 500 or 1000 unit release won't cut it with
>> those guys.
>>
>> -- Tom Fine
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Lewis" <davlew@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <ARSCLIST@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 2:38 PM
>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Vanguard Classics reappears in 2 cd sets
>>
>>
>> Then what did DCC use to make thier reissues,a few years back?
>>
>> Tom Fine <tflists@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: This is the key fact about
>> Everest, from the Vanguard Classics website:
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>> WHAT ABOUT EVEREST?
>>
>> That's the most asked question from consumers who visit our site. When
>> Artemis Records purchased
>> Vanguard Classics from the Omega Records Group in 2003, we declined to
>> purchase the license to the
>> Everest label held by Omega. We know that many of you are looking for the
>> catalog of recordings
>> available from Everest, but Vanguard Classics no longer distributes the
>> Everest label.
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>> (Tom continues...)
>> As I understand it, and I might be wrong ...
>>
>> Everest is now owned by Universal, and Omega no longer exists as a working
>> entity so they no longer
>> have a license to release any Everest recordings. Universal also owns the
>> libraries of the only two
>> other labels to extensively use 35mm mag-film, Mercury (which Universal
>> acquired as part of
>> Polygram) and Command (which was owned by former MCA group that morphed into
>> Universal, acquired by
>> MCA as part of ABC Records).
>>
>> As I understand it, and again I might be wrong, Omega made their 3ch SACD's
>> from the backup 3-track
>> tapes (or the original sessions were done on tape, not film), not from
>> Everest's magnetic films,
>> which I've been told are in terrible condition and many are not around
>> anymore.
>> ****
>>
>> I remember speaking with Duane Martuge, who was working as a rep for
>> Omega/Everest/Vanguard Classics when they first rolled out the Everest
>> product line in about 1996 or so. I met him at the Allegro Conference. Duane
>> said that they **did** work from the Everest films and utilized a machine at
>> Sony that "was the last of its kind" to play back the films. Apparently,
>> this machine was mothballed just as the Everest project reached completion.
>> At one point Omega/Everest was including a little insert with photos within
>> the Everest CD releases to show how they did it technically. But do note
>> that the re-issue program was very limited - perhaps only 8-16 short CDs
>> ever resulted from it. So Tom's assertion that "they are in terrible
>> condition and may not be around anymore" might well be correct. The
>> Northridge earthquake also damaged a great many of the Everest masters - a
>> pity - many reels were bent in half.
>>
>> Tom:
>> Some of the Everest jazz stuff has turned up on a small label the name of
>> which escapes me (Woody
>> Herman, Tito Puente and some others). If I recall correctly, they noted that
>> the material was
>> licensed from Universal, which backs up my belief that Everest is now owned
>> by Universal.
>>
>> The DCC reissues of Everest Jazz material were supplied by Bernie Solomon,
>> who was part of Everest initially and also had a share in DCC. These would
>> have been taken from tapes, and I wish that there had been more of them done
>> than the couple that appeared. At the time at which I met Bernie, in the
>> late 1990s, he still owned a large part of the Everest catalogue, and had
>> issued some of the classical items on a terrible, but persistent, label
>> called Bescol (i.e. "Bernie E. Solomon Company Limited" or something like
>> that) and had leased these and still more to LaserLight. Bernie hasn't been
>> dead a very long time, and if Artemis/Vanguard decided to pass on the
>> Everest classical catalogue, perhaps it has reverted to his, or someone
>> else's, estate. Remember that Bernie Solomon (Everest) and Seymour Solomon
>> (Vanguard) were brothers, so this might complicate matters of legacy
>> considerably. If Universal purchased Everest, I have yet to hear of it, but
>> they don't crow very loudly when they make such acquisitions.
>>
>> Tom:
>>
>> I wish there was enough interest
>> in the Command orchestral stuff to license and reissue some of it. The
>> Pittsburgh/Steinberg stuff
>> was really good.
>>
>> ***
>> I am SO with you there, brother! I remember for my ninth Christmas I told my
>> parents I wanted Stravinsky conducting his three big ballets. I got the Le
>> Sacre and Firebird LPs but there was no Petrushka, so Mom and Dad persuaded
>> me to settle for the $1.99 Pittsburgh/Steinberg performance on Westminister
>> Gold. I grew to love it so much I never went back to look for a Petrushka
>> with Stravinsky conducting. The Schubert symphony disc in that Command
>> series was also just astounding.
>>
>> Finally, I just wanted to say that I have discussed these topics before only
>> to be berated on this list for repeating what guys like Martuge, Steve
>> Hoffmann and Bernie Solomon said to me. Bear in mind that the office for DCC
>> was not far from where I worked (as the classical guy at the Tower Records
>> in Woodland Hills.) PLEASE - do not come on here and tell me I'm a bleeping
>> liar and how could I stand to circulate such myths. I have no idea why these
>> guys would say such things, but I was a good account for them and perhaps
>> they put a little gloss on it. They did seem surprised that I seemed to know
>> so much about their back catalogue and may have been a bit guarded about it.
>> But I used to see Bernie in the store two and three times a week, and I made
>> a point of remembering whatever he told me.
>>
>> David N. Lewis
>> Assistant Classical Editor, All Music Guide
>>
>> My life is the clearest proof that if you have talent, determination and
>> luck, you will make it in the end: Never Give Up. - Sir Georg Solti
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