RE: [AV Media Matters] CD-R Duplicators

[Graham Newton <gn@audio-restoration.com>]

Charles Repka <Charles.P.Repka@abc.com> said to the AV Media Matters list
On the subject: RE: CD-R Duplicators

>This was(is?) a common problem with a lot of duplicators and even some
>stand alone software to be used with PC's.  The Red Book standard actually
>requires 2 seconds of silence at each track ID. Some
>manufacturers wrote their software to blindly follow the Red Book spec.
>Never mind what everyone really does.

This is exactly where the problem lay, but Corporate Systems Center
was completely oblivious to the problem at the time, although they
may have corrected it in their current model since it looks like a
complete remodel of the one I had and returned.

>The problem may be do to the time between track ID's  There is a Red Book
>spec for that also. ( I think it is a minimum of 2 or 4 seconds.  I can't
>remember.  My CD mastering software gives me a warning if Track ID's are too
>close.  Does yours?)    If the tracks are too close together, the copier may
>not see one of the ID's because it is still writing the previous one.

This is not the problem in this case... all tracks are well over the
minimum track length, and yes, the workstation (German made
TripleDAT) that I did this in, does not permit less than spec track
settings.

>I have 2 different Microboads systems. one stand alone, the other requires a
>computer.  Neither of them have ever had a problem copying discs with Track
>ID's in the middle of program.  I do that kind of work all the time. But
>I've never had a master disc with 99 ID's. If you are willing to send me
>your "problem discs" I'll see if I can copy them.  That's the ultimate test.
>I also have a friend with 2 Mediaform duplicators.  I can also check if
>these discs copy properly on them.

Charles: You're on!  Send me your address off-list and I'll send you the
99 track disc to try the above.

A follow-up to my original post:

I talked with Alea Systems yesterday (Thursday) and the consensus of
opinion is that some drives are more strict in their interpretation
of a "fatal error".  Example:  If the Alea unit is fitted with a
Yamaha writer, it will successfully copy the 99 track disc.

The consideration apparently is that audio CDs do not have the same
error checking built in as do CD ROMs and consequently, they depend
heavily on schemes to hide errors so you never hear them in playback
of a CD that contains them.  The Alea duplicator / Plextor drive
combination apparently decides ealier that there is an error that
should stop the process, and so it does.

Interestingly, I have made hundreds of CD masters in my TripleDAT
workstation which have had glass masters made, and replicated from,
without problem.  The CD media itself has been ruled out as
contributing, since many different media have been tested and the
problem was consistent across them. Also, the issues of speed, 2x,
4x, and 8x were tested with different media and ruled out.  The
TripleDAT workstation has output about 10 copies of the 99 track CD
and EACH one has the same problem in the same place.

Since finding the problematic 99 track CD,  I have found another CD
(from the TripleDAT workstation) with only 23 tracks and an entirely
different track layout that ALSO doesn't copy properly, as well as
one commercially pressed release from BASTA.

A perplexing addendum to this... I tried using my SADIE workstation
to read in the 99 track CD with all the PQ codes, and SADIE croaked
in the same place as the Alea... so this would seem to rule out all
the equipment, excepting possibly the Plextor 820 drives which I use
in SADIE also.  I'll try SADIE on the BASTA disc also and see if it
fails.  Perhaps the Plextor drives are too rigid in their decisions
of what is a "fatal error".  I will need some discussions with SADIE
support about this before commenting further.

Lastly, the Alea machine has provision for connecting an external
SCSI drive to cache the copy before writing... there is likelihood
that installing this will allow proper copying of these discs.  I
will try this to see if this overcomes the error objections in the
Alea machine, which otherwise seems to be a good and versatile piece
of equipment.

... Graham Newton

--
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