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Re: [ARSCLIST] Medtner playing his 3rd Piano Concerto]
Michael,
Many big thanks. I did read an earlier posting from that went into the
situation about how soviet recordings were marketed, but I supposed I
missed the relevant section and only saw the Melodiya/MK stuff which I
DO understand (or think I understand). Your extensive elaboration
pretty much tells me all I could hope to know about the disc. I have no
doubt at this point that it is the British 1947, 78rpm recording that
Don Cox wrote about:
The 1947 recording was made on 78s, and judging from the Testament
transfer had poor sound for its period. This CD was made 15 years ago,
and possibly a new transfer from the original parts (if they survive)
might improve on it slightly, but I doubt if there is much more to
extract.
So I would expect a Russian copy, whether made from 78s or from LP,
to be in very poor sound.
Apologies if my requests were unnecessarily redundant, but I'm glad to have all the information I can use in one place now and again thank you, Marcia, Don (and other helpful listers).
Peter Hirsch
Michael Biel wrote:
It seems like the ARSCList took a Christmas vacation!! So lets start
up again.
Punto wrote:
I do want to follow up on this since I initiated the discussion by
trying to decipher and decode a record in hand. From the start, I was
able to transliterate enough to be certain that Medtner was the
composer and soloist on the disc and I had tracked down the Testament
CD of the Medtner/Philharmonia/Dobrowen recording. I could not read
enough of the rest of the text to conclude that this was definitely
the 1947 Mahrajah of Mysore sponsored recording and not some other
one since the recording company and all other information beyond
composer, work and performer, was undecipherable to me. I did hear
from Marcia Segal who very helpfully deciphered a scan I sent them
Several days ago I had already given the translations of the
trademarks on the label, but I'll go into more detail to explain a few
of the words and then go into the history of the factory
.
If the rest of you want to follow along, here is a scan from the web
of this label format of Peter's record --
http://www.collectable-records.ru/labels/RUSSIA/Moscow/vsg/2.htm
The black lettering at the top is translated to Ministry of Culture
USSR. It reads Menesterstvo Kulturi SSSR (cyrillic lettering looking
like CCCP is really SSSR which translates in English as USSR.)
The trademark lettering is BCG but would be pronounced VSG. What
looks like a B is the cyrillic V. What looks like a C is the cyrillic
S. This writing is in script, so the final letter looks to us like a T
but it is a script G. (Very few dictionaries show the script alphabet
chart -- you have to find a children's schoolbook or schoolroom wall
chart which is what I have found to guide me. Another real challenge
is the script T which looks like an M !!!!! Script lettering on album
covers, posters, advertisements, trademarks, etc. are a real challenge
even if you think you can read printed cyrillic.) These initials
stand for what is in the next line in the black banner.
The words in the banner are Vsyesayuznaya Studya Gramzapisi This
translates into All-Union Studio Phonorecords. All-union means it
is for the entire Soviet Union rather than one region or republic.
The middle word is NOT student which includes the letter n in the
Russian word just like in the English word. (There are other words
close to these in the dictionary that start studye . . . that mean
cold, refrigerate, brawn, or jelly depending on what other letters
follow to make up the word.) Gram is the part of the trademark word
Gramophone which means writing (the whole word means writing of sound)
and gram also has some forms like that in Russian as well, but it is
used here much like it is used in the Russian word "gramplastinki"
which means "gramophone plate" or disc record. Zapisi means
document, record, inscription. Gramzapisi is really a coined word,
just like Gramophone.
The curved line at the bottom is Dolgoigrayushaya 33 1/3 which means
Long Playing 33 1/3. At the beginning some LPs were at 78.
VSG was the original name of the factory that was built inside the
city limits of Moscow in the early 60s, and later in the Melodiya days
became noted on the labels in Russian as the Moscow Experimental
Factory Gramzapis. When the USSR was broken up, so was Melodiya. In
Moscow it was a very complicated situation that was only
understandable once the President of Melodiya explained it to me.
This record factory became corporately independent and used the trade
name Gramzapis. There are some records in the 1990s with this
trademark. The executive office building is the only part of the
company which legally retained the use of the trademark Melodiya, and
was able to get financing as a joint venture with German BMG
Bertlesman. The recording studio right next door to the executive
office building was supposed to be part of that company, but the
workers in that building took it over and made their own joint venture
with another company and became known as Russian Disc. I have a
couple of examples of records with a Russian Disc label but a Melodiya
trademark on the sleeve, and the President explained that these
probably left the factory at the time when the eventual outcome of the
split was uncertain. But he explained unhappily that they are two
separate companies. Here are a few of the many formats of Russian
Disc records.
http://www.collectable-records.ru/labels/RUSSIA/Moscow/russian_disc/1.htm
http://www.collectable-records.ru/labels/RUSSIA/Moscow/russian_disc/9.htm
http://www.collectable-records.ru/labels/RUSSIA/Moscow/russian_disc/5.htm
BUT all of the separate companies were still tied together because of
the manufacturing facilities. ALL raw vinyl for every plant in the
entire country came from the Aprelvka factory which is about 30 miles
SW of Moscow. Their joint-venture name was Aprelvka Sound, and you
will see records from the 90s with that trademark. ALL the metal
parts for masters and stampers for the entire country were made in
Moscow, possibly in the recording studio. So there had to be SOME
cooperation among all of the parts of the former Melodiya. The
ownership of the masters, the metal parts, etc, were major contractual
problems because if a factory had metal parts they would use them even
if the Moscow office building company thought they had exclusive
rights to them. And the master tapes were next door in the Russian
Disc recording studio, and they used them even thought the office
building company thought it improper. It is all very confusing.
The Riga plant was bought by one of the musicians of the rock group
Time Machine and became known as RiTonis/Sintez.
http://www.collectable-records.ru/labels/RUSSIA/RIGA/26.htm
http://www.collectable-records.ru/labels/RUSSIA/RIGA/20.htm
Leningrad became a major source of Russian Beatles records with the
trademark AnTrop (which can't be read properly by non-Russians, but
stands for Andrey Tropillo, a major rock manager),
http://www.collectable-records.ru/labels/RUSSIA/NO%20LABEL/4.htm
Leningrad pressed other labels like Gala, and SNC for rock musician
Stas Namin.
http://www.collectable-records.ru/labels/RUSSIA/PETERBOURG/gala/1.htm
http://www.collectable-records.ru/labels/RUSSIA/PETERBOURG/snc/1.htm
The Tiblisi plant became the source of pirated rock LPs with no
visible trademark.
The VSG plant, which by then was known as the Moscow Experimental
Factory Gramzapis, was in the midst of being converted to all-CD
manufacturing before the split and was able to start pressing CDs with
the Melodiya trademark. Those discs have a blue swirl on the label.
When the split-off came, the factory took the trademark Gramzapis, and
you will find CDs with that trademark. Within a year the Russian
Mafia infiltrated that factory. I interviewed the man who was the
manager of the plant during the LP era and oversaw the conversion to
CDs. When I told him I had bought a Rolling Stones CD in Kentucky
with a Melodiya trademark, he became visibly sad. He told me he tried
to keep the factory honest, but Andrey Tropillo came to him with a
forged license contract and had the CDs pressed. Then when he
realized that there was no way to fight the mafia, he and his
assistant quit, and the mafia took over the plant. At that point in
1995 the two of them were running a small company which made childrens
cassettes. It was a VERY SMALL company. Their entire manufacturing
plant was a four-well cassette duplicator in the room next to his
office. He had to be VERY small to not interest the mafia. There
still was a factory retail store in Gramzapis in 1995, and when the
counter girls found out I was an American collector they gave me a
copy of each LP they still had in stock which was about ten records.
I also bought a few CDs. Alexander would not let me take any pictures
there -- "It is not safe, Michael. Very criminal place." I got
videotape of the factory only when were were across a very wide and
busy street. All the time he was worried and fidgeting and looking
all around and making us both look very suspicious!!! (We had almost
been gunned down leaving another record company when photographing
near a car with some suspicious characters, so he was right to be
nervous.)
If you will send me the label scans I can explain the other numbers
and letters on the label for the recording itself.
Mike Biel mbiel@xxxxxxxxx ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Punto wrote:
I do want to follow up on this since I initiated the discussion by
trying to decipher and decode a record in hand. From the start, I was
able to transliterate enough to be certain that Medtner was the
composer and soloist on the disc and I had tracked down the Testament
CD of the Medtner/Philharmonia/Dobrowen recording. I could not read
enough of the rest of the text to conclude that this was definitely
the 1947 Mahrajah of Mysore sponsored recording and not some other
one since the recording company and all other information beyond
composer, work and performer, was undecipherable to me. I did hear
from Marcia Segal who very helpfully deciphered a scan I sent them
and I now know that it is just a dismally poor pressing of the
Philharmonia Abbey Road LP. I have not asked for permission to quote,
so I hope she won't mind my sharing a portion of the correspondence
in hope that someone else is familiar with the issuing label and
might have more information on it. Mike Biel and Steve Smolian have
ventured a fair amount on clarification on the Melodiya/MK situation,
but this does not appear have anything to do with them, but rather
something close to what is below.
Very rough transliteration/phonetic rendering, enough that you may
be able to search via Google:
From top to bottom:
1) The line at the top ending with CCCP
Ministyerstvo Cultyur CCCP (possibly)
Cultural Ministry of the Soviet Union
*>2) BCG and in the black ribbon beneaeth it
Vsyesoyuznaya Studiya Gramzapisi *(possibly)
the second word means "study"
No it doesn't. It means "Studio." You are confused because of the
closeness of this word to styudent
Anyone have more information or want a crack at the scan that I have
made?
Thanks to Marcia and anyone with supplemental info.
Peter Hirsch