Scott,
We actually didn't have a 35mm machine when we bought the catalogue, so
we went out and invested in one, and we have been doing straight
transfers from tape to 24-bit copies, just to have an archival digital
version. The DVD-A versions being put out by Classic Records should
enable you to hear the true three-channel transfers for the first time.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
[mailto:ARSCLIST@xxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Scott D. Smith
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 3:01 PM
To: ARSCLIST@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Everest masters
Mark:
That pretty much confirms what I had heard second-hand. Too bad that
someone along the way didn't realize the value of them and put them
into archival containers.
It would be interesting to hear some of these recordings in their
original three channel form (even though that's not what Robert Fine
and the producers had necessarily intended). It's just tragedy that
they weren't cared for.
I hope that you were able to make some decent transfers, as my guess
is they won't stand many more.
--Scott
Scott D. Smith
Chicago Audio Works, Inc.
Quoting Mark Jenkins <MJenkins@xxxxxxxxxx>:
Scott,
The Everest 35mm masters were in VERY poor condition. The storage
containers we received them in were decades old, rusty, and the
vinegaring process had already started in many of them. They were
immediately transferred to new stable containers; however, I have been
unable to locate a few of the tapes that evidently (from what I have
been told) had already deteriorated beyond retrieval prior to our
purchase of them.
As for the other portions of the catalogue, certain areas (such as the
Fine Arts Quartet recordings) were actually in fair condition, and
many
of these have already been transferred, and will eventually appear on
digital retail sites such as classical.com. We're still in the
process
of getting through all of the material in order to make it available
again in disc-on-demand, as well as digital (and in some cases CD)
formats.
Mark
Mark Jenkins
President, Licensing Division
Madacy Entertainment LP/Countdown Media
-----Original Message-----
From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
[mailto:ARSCLIST@xxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Scott D. Smith
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 1:39 PM
To: ARSCLIST@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Project 3 masters
Mark,
Fascinating. I would be most interested in knowing what you find in
the Project 3 catalog.
What kind of condition were the Everest masters in? They have really
gotten bounced around over the years...
--Scott
Scott D. Smith
Chicago Audio Works, Inc.
Quoting Mark Jenkins <MJenkins@xxxxxxxxxx>:
Scott/Tom,
We actually represent the current owners of the Project 3 catalogue,
SPJ
Music, for licensing. We have not exploited this particular
catalogue
as of yet (as our initial interest was in the Vox catalogue, which is
also owned by them). I'm in the process of getting a list of the
type
of masters in the archive still extant (multi-channel, 35mm, quad,
etc.). Presently, the masters for these are in storage in
Massacheusetts. I do not, as of yet, have a good handle on the
condition of these, but will update you when known.
Mark Jenkins
President, Licensing Division
Madacy Entertainment LP/Countdown Media
-----Original Message-----
From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
[mailto:ARSCLIST@xxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Scott D. Smith
Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 5:54 PM
To: ARSCLIST@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] 35mm magnetic film as a music-master
recording
method
Tom,
To the best of my knowledge, Command stopped using 35mm as a
recording
medium after Enoch Light sold the label to ABC Records in 1965. ABC
then
sold it to MCA, who promptly relegated it to the trash heap of
re-issues. A sad story...
Richard Gradone did a doctoral dissertation on the career of Enoch
Light
and his record labels while at NYU in 1980. I have never read it, so
I
don't know if it might contain any pertinent information or not.
I have only a few Project 3 original releases. I know that "Patterns
in
Sound" series was done on 35mm, but after that, I'm really not sure.
There is also the entire catalog of Project 3 quad releases, which I
assume were probably done on 4 track tape, but could have been
recorded
on 35mm 4 track mag as well.
In general, the recordings that Enoch Light did under the Command
label
were considered by many to be both artistically and technically
superior
to the Project 3 releases, which had arrangements which were tended
to
be less interesting than those that were done under the Command
label.
In general, they didn't sell as well as the Command releases did.
I have no idea what Essex is doing with the current catalog, or even
where the masters are. My guess is that they are probably in about
the
same condition as the Everest masters.
The only other possible release I can think of might be the 1957
(Stokowski) version of "Fantasia", release by Walt Disney under the
Buena Vista label. Sadly, the original 1939 recording has been lost
to
time, having been recorded on 35mm nitrate film, and later
transferred
to 3 track magnetic film over a jury-rigged class A phone line
arrangement in 1955. Despite this, Terry Porter managed to clean it
up
fairly well for the 1980 re-release.
There were also a number of other movie soundtracks which were done
on
35mm mag for film release, some which ran simultaneous session tapes.
I
know a few scoring mixers who worked in Hollywood during the early
seventies. They have told me that practices varied from session to
session. Some would run tape and film, others were done only on film
(usually four track or six track), and later mixed to a 2 track tape
master for album release. Since liner notes seldom contained these
details, they are probably lost to time. Nearly every mixer I've
spoken
to has preferred the quality of the mag film masters over those done
on
tape. This is probably primarily due to the faster speed of the film
(equivalent to 18 IPS), thicker oxide formulations, and wider track
configuration (150 mil for 3 track, 100 mil for 6 track).
Nearly all the mag film that I have worked with from the mid-1950's
through the late 60's has suffered from some degree of VS, some much
more so than others. Even film that has been stored in decent vault
conditions has suffered, primarily due to the fact that most of it
has
been stored in sealed film cans, which doesn't allow for venting of
the
film. Most of the films also suffer from various degrees of base
warp,
which makes for a difficult situation when it comes to maintaining
film-to-head contact.
Scott D. Smith
*Chicago Audio Works, Inc.*
Tom Fine wrote:
Hi All:
I'm cookin' up some research here and I figured I throw a few
questions out to the group. The topic: the use of 35mm mag-film as
the
main recording medium for music albums.
1. As far as I can tell, before Everest Records started using 35mm
to
do classical music recording sessions, the only prior use of 35mm as
an album-recording or album-mastering medium was a few cases of
film-soundtrack albums where the LP master was cut right from the
35mm
soundtrack magnetic master. I think RCA issued a few of these early
in
the LP era but I'm not positive those were from 35mm magnetic
masters
(they might have been from optical masters from pre-magnetic film
days). Any specific pre-Everest titles would be most appreciated.
Everest's use of mag-film was circa 1959-60.
2. The mag-film trend was short-lived, I think. As far as I can
tell,
by 1964 or so, only Command Records was still regularly making 35mm
mag-film masters for music albums. Any information on other labels
aside from Command and Project 3 regularly using 35mm as their
recording and mastering medium in the mid-60's would be appreciated.
The last Mercury Living Presence film sessions were 1963. Mercury's
pop Perfect Presence series ended in late 1961, if I recall
correctly.
3. By the late 60's, I think only Enoch Light's Project 3 Records
was
still regularly recording and/or mastering to 35mm. If anyone has
information different from this, I'd be most appreciative if they'd
share it. I think Project 3 continued to use 35mm regularly into the
early 70's, even creating 4-track quad masters. But I don't have any
specifics about that era and Project 3, so any additional
information
is greatly appreciated.
For those shy and/or discreet, please feel free to ping me off-list
and thank you in advnace.
Thanks!
-- Tom Fine
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