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Re: [ARSCLIST] Folkways Reissues
Fine.Other than donating money,what ?
Roger
Steven Smolian <smolians@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: You can hear materials on site. You cannot expect the government to
infringe its own copyright laws. Would you like to loose the LOC to
SONY/BMG as copyright reparations?
You want it to work differently, support ARSC's work trying to have the
copyright laws revised.
Steve Smolian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger and Allison Kulp"
To:
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Folkways Reissues
> As somebody who is older than Garr,but younger than Mike,here let me say
> that nobody likes to hear "In my day..." stories.
>
> There is no excuse for an institution like The LOC making you go through a
> process that is the equivalent of applying for a government security
> clearance,in order to hear a recording.
>
> Why we just know al Queda wants to come over to our libraries,and listen
> to Joseph Samuels,or Wilhem Bachaus !
>
> The solution isn't to gripe about it,it's to pressure LOC into changing
> their policy.
>
> If I needed to listen to something for research,I wouldn't fool with some
> place like them,unless it was a last resort.I would seek it out on the
> web.Even if I had to pay $50.00 or more for an import/OOP CD.
>
> Roger
>
> "Mike Biel, per David Lennick" wrote: (From Mike
> Biel, forwarded by DL)
>
> I have been FUMING here since I saw the original posting from Garr
> Norwick,
> just itching to reply but having trouble posting thru web mail right now.
> I am
> glad that there have been a couple of very good replies, such as this one
> from
> John Ross and earlier from Jim Nelson. But with his recent posting now I
> understand where Garr is coming from. Without him admitting he is 23 I
> wouldn't have known it because his writing is more mature than that. I
> don't
> know whether it makes me feel it excuses him or if he needs an
> introduction to
> the real world. After all, we were all 23 once, many of my students are
> that
> age, and so is my daughter, Leah, who many of you know from here
> attendance at
> ARSC. I was once a young whippersnapper sitting at the feet of the
> pioneers
> of this field. So Garr, come over here and listen to the Ole' Perfesser
> tell
> you about the real world.
>
> Back around 1986 at the Chicago ARSC, when Tony Seeger first unveiled the
> Smithsonian's plans for the Asch and Cook archives, you could hear the
> room
> heave a sigh of relief. They were going to do a good job and it was going
> to
> be CHEAP!!!!!! Garr, FIFTEEN BUCKS IS CHEAP!!!!!!! It was cheap twenty
> years
> ago in the days of cassettes, and it is even MORE of a bargain now in the
> days
> of CDs and inflation. Dubs off the MASTER TAPES!!! Photocopies of the
> original notes!! We sometimes didn't get them with the original LPs. (Moe
> admitted that sometimes he didn't include them to force the purchasers to
> send
> in the postcard so he could enlarge his mailing list!!!) This was better
> than
> going to Moe's office and trying to find a copy of the LP.
>
> Have you ever tried to get a recording out of the Library of Congress or
> the
> National Archives thru their technical service depts? Go on their web
> sites
> and take a gander. Also look at the hoops you will have to jump thru at
> LC to
> get clearances before even getting permission to pay them to do the job.
> Then
> take a look thru the names of some of the posters on this list who are
> professional restoration engineers. Sorry guys, because some of you are my
> friends of long standing, but some of your charges make LC look cheap!
>
> Garr, you and I are in a different world and different league from the
> pros.
> We do it for fun, they have to feed their families on this. Even at the
> Government. As Bob Carneal, the then chief audio engineer at LC told me 30
> years ago, "Mike, the audio lab here at LC is not taxpayer supported. We
> have
> to pay our way with the work we do. And we have to be able to defend
> ourselves
> if we are accused of unfair competition with professional studios."
>
> Some of the guys on this list were also good friends of the late George
> Blacker. We all have at least several boxes of reels of tape of all sizes
> of
> some of the rarest records in the world with slips in them typed so full
> of
> information that there are no margins on them. George never asked a dime
> from
> us. We usually didn't know the tapes were coming. We had just chatted
> with
> George at a Syndicate meeting or on the phone and the subject of the
> record
> came up or he just found it and knew we would also be interested in it.
> Boy do
> I miss George. Not because of all those tapes, but because he would have
> been
> the number one poster on all of these internet lists. George, George,
> George,
> what you missed, and what we all have missed without you. And lonely Bill
> Bryant up in Maine. These lists are what he craved way up there. Bill
> also
> sent out tapes of rare records. No charge. And Milford Fargo. (I don't
> mean
> to break out the Kleenex box guys, but the story fits. And these guys DO
> deserve our reverent memory)
> And these certainly were not and are not the only ones freely exchanging
> time,
> information, and recordings.
>
> Perhaps it is not so ironic that as soon as I finish this I am going down
> to
> school, and now that exams are over, I'm doing two dubbings I promised a
> few
> weeks ago. The Kiddierecordking is getting a dub of Molly Bee's Willy
> Claus a
> client of his needs, and I am sending scans of the disc which Molly
> autographed
> for me in October. No charge, but I'm sure he will be returning with a
> dub of
> the one childrens record I've not been able to re-collect from my
> childhood.
> He showed me he did have a copy of it when I was over at his place. Then
> I am
> doing a CD dub of an uncoated aluminum disc for someone from California.
> It
> was a Walter Garwick recording and we were hoping it might be a folkie,
> but it
> is just a better version of a Florence Foster Jenkins type. And next week
> Neil
> Shell and I are going to exchange dubs of the one disc of the 1932
> Shilkret RCA
> broadcast series that we each has that the other one is missing. And I
> have
> also done dubs of home discs or wires for people here in town for just 5
> or 10
> bucks. But this is not my business and I am not doing any fancy
> restoration work.
>
> Garr, you and I are in the same boat as each other, just that I've been
> doing
> it for forty years longer than you. And some of the pros on this list
> started
> out the same way but then went into business doing it. Maybe you will
> too.
> George, Bill, Milford, and I didn't. We all had our day jobs. (Well,
> maybe
> George didn't, but he said he wanted to get a day job.)
>
> We should all be thankful that the Smithsonian provides that service.
> Very few
> other archives do at that price. And remember, all that we are doing is
> without paying any of the royalties that would be due in the commercial
> world
> and would increase the price. Since all of this I've discussed has been
> in
> relationship with research and educational work that we do, or a technical
> job
> for the owner of the non-professional original, we don't have the rights
> questions that was mentioned by others concerning the Smithsonian.
>
> Don't mean to lecture, but it come naturally.
>
> Mike (the old perfesser) Biel mbiel@xxxxxxx
>
>
>
>
> Quoting John Ross :
>
> > There's a huge difference between your making a one-off CD copy of a
> > recording and operating a business that provides a similar service from
> > a catalogue of several thousand titles.
> >
> > First, there's staff: not only a technician to burn the copies and
> > maintain the equipment, but also one or more archivists to catalogue
> > and maintain the collection; somebody to accept orders and handle
> > billing and payments; a webmaster to create and maintain the online
> > catalogue; and somebody to handle marketing and publicity. I'm probably
> > leaving something out.
> >
> > Second, in order to provide that special-order service, it's necessary
> > to create and maintain an extensive archive of audio files, cover art
> > and images of the booklets that accompanied every Folkways LP. That's
> > another cost.
> >
> > Third, unlike Moe Asch, who was notorious for being slow (or stagnant)
> > about paying royalties, the Smithsonian actually keeps track of sales
> > of those special orders and sends royalty payments to the performers on
> > those special-order items. As Tony Seeger, the former director of
> > Smithsonian/Folkways once told me, "As an agency of the U.S.
> > Government, we have an obligation to respect copyrights and performing
> > rights."
> >
> > Or consider the same question from another direction: If you're really
> > efficient, it might take you an hour to make a clean copy of a
> > 45-minute LP; more if it requires noise reduction, de-clicking or other
> > processing. Isn't your time worth more than $15 per hour?
> >
> > John Ross
> >
> > At 12/14/2007 07:35 AM, Garr Norick wrote:
> >> Don't get me wrong... please understand that I admire what Folkways is
> doing, and it is something that needs to be done... Maybe this
> illustration
> will show me what I mean... I have a private collection of music... I
> have
> been collecting for 20 years, and I am 23 years old... Say someone wanted
> a CD
> dub of a recording in my collection... I could transfer it onto CD and
> xerox
> the liner notes for them, and this would cost me at most one dollar. I
> could
> charge them five dollars for the whole thing, plus shipping, and make a
> 500%
> profit... Smithsonian, a government entity, owns the rights to all these
> masters outright... they probably buy blank CDs, labels, and paper for
> insert
> materials in massive quantities... thereby saving money... in other
> words,
> they probably don't have considerable overhead aside from paying someone
> to do
> these transfers (which, understanding the importance of keeping this
> music
> alive, would gladly do for them free of charge)... what I am trying to
> say
> >> is, all things considered, considering that they own the masters and
> probably get the raw materials at or below wholesale pricing, they could
> easily charge $10 a CD and make a nice profit on it (and it probably
> costs
> them less to make a custom CD than it does me, because I buy my supplies
> in
> retail quantities at retail prices). I guess part of my point of view is
> that
> I am a collector who has always been on a shoestring budget. I sincerely
> hope
> I did not offend anyone.
> >>
> >> Most Sincerely Yours,
> >> G.E.
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------
> >> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
>
>
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