As somebody who is older than Garr,but younger than Mike,here let me
say that nobody likes to hear "In my day..." stories.
There is no excuse for an institution like The LOC making you go through
a process that is the equivalent of applying for a government security
clearance,in order to hear a recording.
Why we just know al Queda wants to come over to our libraries,and listen
to Joseph Samuels,or Wilhem Bachaus !
The solution isn't to gripe about it,it's to pressure LOC into changing
their policy.
If I needed to listen to something for research,I wouldn't fool with
some place like them,unless it was a last resort.I would seek it out on
the web.Even if I had to pay $50.00 or more for an import/OOP CD.
Roger
"Mike Biel, per David Lennick" <dlennick@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: (From Mike
Biel, forwarded by DL)
I have been FUMING here since I saw the original posting from Garr
Norwick,
just itching to reply but having trouble posting thru web mail right
now. I am
glad that there have been a couple of very good replies, such as this
one from
John Ross and earlier from Jim Nelson. But with his recent posting now
I
understand where Garr is coming from. Without him admitting he is 23 I
wouldn't have known it because his writing is more mature than that. I
don't
know whether it makes me feel it excuses him or if he needs an
introduction to
the real world. After all, we were all 23 once, many of my students are
that
age, and so is my daughter, Leah, who many of you know from here
attendance at
ARSC. I was once a young whippersnapper sitting at the feet of the
pioneers
of this field. So Garr, come over here and listen to the Ole' Perfesser
tell
you about the real world.
Back around 1986 at the Chicago ARSC, when Tony Seeger first unveiled
the
Smithsonian's plans for the Asch and Cook archives, you could hear the
room
heave a sigh of relief. They were going to do a good job and it was
going to
be CHEAP!!!!!! Garr, FIFTEEN BUCKS IS CHEAP!!!!!!! It was cheap twenty
years
ago in the days of cassettes, and it is even MORE of a bargain now in
the days
of CDs and inflation. Dubs off the MASTER TAPES!!! Photocopies of the
original notes!! We sometimes didn't get them with the original LPs.
(Moe
admitted that sometimes he didn't include them to force the purchasers
to send
in the postcard so he could enlarge his mailing list!!!) This was
better than
going to Moe's office and trying to find a copy of the LP.
Have you ever tried to get a recording out of the Library of Congress or
the
National Archives thru their technical service depts? Go on their web
sites
and take a gander. Also look at the hoops you will have to jump thru at
LC to
get clearances before even getting permission to pay them to do the job.
Then
take a look thru the names of some of the posters on this list who are
professional restoration engineers. Sorry guys, because some of you are
my
friends of long standing, but some of your charges make LC look cheap!
Garr, you and I are in a different world and different league from the
pros.
We do it for fun, they have to feed their families on this. Even at the
Government. As Bob Carneal, the then chief audio engineer at LC told me
30
years ago, "Mike, the audio lab here at LC is not taxpayer supported.
We have
to pay our way with the work we do. And we have to be able to defend
ourselves
if we are accused of unfair competition with professional studios."
Some of the guys on this list were also good friends of the late George
Blacker. We all have at least several boxes of reels of tape of all
sizes of
some of the rarest records in the world with slips in them typed so full
of
information that there are no margins on them. George never asked a
dime from
us. We usually didn't know the tapes were coming. We had just chatted
with
George at a Syndicate meeting or on the phone and the subject of the
record
came up or he just found it and knew we would also be interested in it.
Boy do
I miss George. Not because of all those tapes, but because he would
have been
the number one poster on all of these internet lists. George, George,
George,
what you missed, and what we all have missed without you. And lonely
Bill
Bryant up in Maine. These lists are what he craved way up there. Bill
also
sent out tapes of rare records. No charge. And Milford Fargo. (I
don't mean
to break out the Kleenex box guys, but the story fits. And these guys
DO
deserve our reverent memory)
And these certainly were not and are not the only ones freely exchanging
time,
information, and recordings.
Perhaps it is not so ironic that as soon as I finish this I am going
down to
school, and now that exams are over, I'm doing two dubbings I promised a
few
weeks ago. The Kiddierecordking is getting a dub of Molly Bee's Willy
Claus a
client of his needs, and I am sending scans of the disc which Molly
autographed
for me in October. No charge, but I'm sure he will be returning with a
dub of
the one childrens record I've not been able to re-collect from my
childhood.
He showed me he did have a copy of it when I was over at his place.
Then I am
doing a CD dub of an uncoated aluminum disc for someone from California.
It
was a Walter Garwick recording and we were hoping it might be a folkie,
but it
is just a better version of a Florence Foster Jenkins type. And next
week Neil
Shell and I are going to exchange dubs of the one disc of the 1932
Shilkret RCA
broadcast series that we each has that the other one is missing. And I
have
also done dubs of home discs or wires for people here in town for just 5
or 10
bucks. But this is not my business and I am not doing any fancy
restoration work.
Garr, you and I are in the same boat as each other, just that I've been
doing
it for forty years longer than you. And some of the pros on this list
started
out the same way but then went into business doing it. Maybe you will
too.
George, Bill, Milford, and I didn't. We all had our day jobs. (Well,
maybe
George didn't, but he said he wanted to get a day job.)
We should all be thankful that the Smithsonian provides that service.
Very few
other archives do at that price. And remember, all that we are doing is
without paying any of the royalties that would be due in the commercial
world
and would increase the price. Since all of this I've discussed has been
in
relationship with research and educational work that we do, or a
technical job
for the owner of the non-professional original, we don't have the rights
questions that was mentioned by others concerning the Smithsonian.
Don't mean to lecture, but it come naturally.
Mike (the old perfesser) Biel mbiel@xxxxxxx
Quoting John Ross :
> There's a huge difference between your making a one-off CD copy of a
> recording and operating a business that provides a similar service
> from
> a catalogue of several thousand titles.
>
> First, there's staff: not only a technician to burn the copies and
> maintain the equipment, but also one or more archivists to catalogue
> and maintain the collection; somebody to accept orders and handle
> billing and payments; a webmaster to create and maintain the online
> catalogue; and somebody to handle marketing and publicity. I'm
> probably
> leaving something out.
>
> Second, in order to provide that special-order service, it's necessary
> to create and maintain an extensive archive of audio files, cover art
> and images of the booklets that accompanied every Folkways LP. That's
> another cost.
>
> Third, unlike Moe Asch, who was notorious for being slow (or stagnant)
> about paying royalties, the Smithsonian actually keeps track of sales
> of those special orders and sends royalty payments to the performers
> on
> those special-order items. As Tony Seeger, the former director of
> Smithsonian/Folkways once told me, "As an agency of the U.S.
> Government, we have an obligation to respect copyrights and performing
> rights."
>
> Or consider the same question from another direction: If you're really
> efficient, it might take you an hour to make a clean copy of a
> 45-minute LP; more if it requires noise reduction, de-clicking or
> other
> processing. Isn't your time worth more than $15 per hour?
>
> John Ross
>
> At 12/14/2007 07:35 AM, Garr Norick wrote:
>> Don't get me wrong... please understand that I admire what Folkways
>> is
doing, and it is something that needs to be done... Maybe this
illustration
will show me what I mean... I have a private collection of music... I
have
been collecting for 20 years, and I am 23 years old... Say someone
wanted a CD
dub of a recording in my collection... I could transfer it onto CD and
xerox
the liner notes for them, and this would cost me at most one dollar. I
could
charge them five dollars for the whole thing, plus shipping, and make a
500%
profit... Smithsonian, a government entity, owns the rights to all
these
masters outright... they probably buy blank CDs, labels, and paper for
insert
materials in massive quantities... thereby saving money... in other
words,
they probably don't have considerable overhead aside from paying
someone to do
these transfers (which, understanding the importance of keeping this
music
alive, would gladly do for them free of charge)... what I am trying to
say
>> is, all things considered, considering that they own the masters and
probably get the raw materials at or below wholesale pricing, they
could
easily charge $10 a CD and make a nice profit on it (and it probably
costs
them less to make a custom CD than it does me, because I buy my
supplies in
retail quantities at retail prices). I guess part of my point of view
is that
I am a collector who has always been on a shoestring budget. I
sincerely hope
I did not offend anyone.
>>
>> Most Sincerely Yours,
>> G.E.
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------
>> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
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