As somebody who is older than Garr,but younger than Mike,here let
me say
that nobody likes to hear "In my day..." stories.
There is no excuse for an institution like The LOC making you go
through a
process that is the equivalent of applying for a government security
clearance,in order to hear a recording.
Why we just know al Queda wants to come over to our libraries,and
listen
to Joseph Samuels,or Wilhem Bachaus !
The solution isn't to gripe about it,it's to pressure LOC into
changing
their policy.
If I needed to listen to something for research,I wouldn't fool
with some
place like them,unless it was a last resort.I would seek it out on
the
web.Even if I had to pay $50.00 or more for an import/OOP CD.
Roger
"Mike Biel, per David Lennick" wrote: (From Mike
Biel, forwarded by DL)
I have been FUMING here since I saw the original posting from Garr
Norwick,
just itching to reply but having trouble posting thru web mail
right now.
I am
glad that there have been a couple of very good replies, such as
this one
from
John Ross and earlier from Jim Nelson. But with his recent
posting now I
understand where Garr is coming from. Without him admitting he is
23 I
wouldn't have known it because his writing is more mature than
that. I
don't
know whether it makes me feel it excuses him or if he needs an
introduction to
the real world. After all, we were all 23 once, many of my
students are
that
age, and so is my daughter, Leah, who many of you know from here
attendance at
ARSC. I was once a young whippersnapper sitting at the feet of the
pioneers
of this field. So Garr, come over here and listen to the Ole'
Perfesser
tell
you about the real world.
Back around 1986 at the Chicago ARSC, when Tony Seeger first
unveiled the
Smithsonian's plans for the Asch and Cook archives, you could hear
the
room
heave a sigh of relief. They were going to do a good job and it
was going
to
be CHEAP!!!!!! Garr, FIFTEEN BUCKS IS CHEAP!!!!!!! It was cheap
twenty
years
ago in the days of cassettes, and it is even MORE of a bargain now
in the
days
of CDs and inflation. Dubs off the MASTER TAPES!!! Photocopies
of the
original notes!! We sometimes didn't get them with the original
LPs. (Moe
admitted that sometimes he didn't include them to force the
purchasers to
send
in the postcard so he could enlarge his mailing list!!!) This was
better
than
going to Moe's office and trying to find a copy of the LP.
Have you ever tried to get a recording out of the Library of
Congress or
the
National Archives thru their technical service depts? Go on their
web
sites
and take a gander. Also look at the hoops you will have to jump
thru at
LC to
get clearances before even getting permission to pay them to do
the job.
Then
take a look thru the names of some of the posters on this list who
are
professional restoration engineers. Sorry guys, because some of
you are my
friends of long standing, but some of your charges make LC look
cheap!
Garr, you and I are in a different world and different league from
the
pros.
We do it for fun, they have to feed their families on this. Even
at the
Government. As Bob Carneal, the then chief audio engineer at LC
told me 30
years ago, "Mike, the audio lab here at LC is not taxpayer
supported. We
have
to pay our way with the work we do. And we have to be able to defend
ourselves
if we are accused of unfair competition with professional studios."
Some of the guys on this list were also good friends of the late
George
Blacker. We all have at least several boxes of reels of tape of
all sizes
of
some of the rarest records in the world with slips in them typed
so full
of
information that there are no margins on them. George never asked
a dime
from
us. We usually didn't know the tapes were coming. We had just
chatted
with
George at a Syndicate meeting or on the phone and the subject of the
record
came up or he just found it and knew we would also be interested
in it.
Boy do
I miss George. Not because of all those tapes, but because he
would have
been
the number one poster on all of these internet lists. George, George,
George,
what you missed, and what we all have missed without you. And
lonely Bill
Bryant up in Maine. These lists are what he craved way up there.
Bill
also
sent out tapes of rare records. No charge. And Milford Fargo.
(I don't
mean
to break out the Kleenex box guys, but the story fits. And these
guys DO
deserve our reverent memory)
And these certainly were not and are not the only ones freely
exchanging
time,
information, and recordings.
Perhaps it is not so ironic that as soon as I finish this I am
going down
to
school, and now that exams are over, I'm doing two dubbings I
promised a
few
weeks ago. The Kiddierecordking is getting a dub of Molly Bee's
Willy
Claus a
client of his needs, and I am sending scans of the disc which Molly
autographed
for me in October. No charge, but I'm sure he will be returning
with a
dub of
the one childrens record I've not been able to re-collect from my
childhood.
He showed me he did have a copy of it when I was over at his
place. Then
I am
doing a CD dub of an uncoated aluminum disc for someone from
California.
It
was a Walter Garwick recording and we were hoping it might be a
folkie,
but it
is just a better version of a Florence Foster Jenkins type. And
next week
Neil
Shell and I are going to exchange dubs of the one disc of the 1932
Shilkret RCA
broadcast series that we each has that the other one is missing.
And I
have
also done dubs of home discs or wires for people here in town for
just 5
or 10
bucks. But this is not my business and I am not doing any fancy
restoration work.
Garr, you and I are in the same boat as each other, just that I've
been
doing
it for forty years longer than you. And some of the pros on this
list
started
out the same way but then went into business doing it. Maybe you
will
too.
George, Bill, Milford, and I didn't. We all had our day jobs.
(Well,
maybe
George didn't, but he said he wanted to get a day job.)
We should all be thankful that the Smithsonian provides that service.
Very few
other archives do at that price. And remember, all that we are
doing is
without paying any of the royalties that would be due in the
commercial
world
and would increase the price. Since all of this I've discussed
has been
in
relationship with research and educational work that we do, or a
technical
job
for the owner of the non-professional original, we don't have the
rights
questions that was mentioned by others concerning the Smithsonian.
Don't mean to lecture, but it come naturally.
Mike (the old perfesser) Biel mbiel@xxxxxxx
Quoting John Ross :
There's a huge difference between your making a one-off CD copy of a
recording and operating a business that provides a similar
service from
a catalogue of several thousand titles.
First, there's staff: not only a technician to burn the copies and
maintain the equipment, but also one or more archivists to catalogue
and maintain the collection; somebody to accept orders and handle
billing and payments; a webmaster to create and maintain the online
catalogue; and somebody to handle marketing and publicity. I'm
probably
leaving something out.
Second, in order to provide that special-order service, it's
necessary
to create and maintain an extensive archive of audio files, cover
art
and images of the booklets that accompanied every Folkways LP.
That's
another cost.
Third, unlike Moe Asch, who was notorious for being slow (or
stagnant)
about paying royalties, the Smithsonian actually keeps track of
sales
of those special orders and sends royalty payments to the
performers on
those special-order items. As Tony Seeger, the former director of
Smithsonian/Folkways once told me, "As an agency of the U.S.
Government, we have an obligation to respect copyrights and
performing
rights."
Or consider the same question from another direction: If you're
really
efficient, it might take you an hour to make a clean copy of a
45-minute LP; more if it requires noise reduction, de-clicking or
other
processing. Isn't your time worth more than $15 per hour?
John Ross
At 12/14/2007 07:35 AM, Garr Norick wrote:
Don't get me wrong... please understand that I admire what
Folkways is
doing, and it is something that needs to be done... Maybe this
illustration
will show me what I mean... I have a private collection of
music... I
have
been collecting for 20 years, and I am 23 years old... Say
someone wanted
a CD
dub of a recording in my collection... I could transfer it onto
CD and
xerox
the liner notes for them, and this would cost me at most one
dollar. I
could
charge them five dollars for the whole thing, plus shipping, and
make a
500%
profit... Smithsonian, a government entity, owns the rights to
all these
masters outright... they probably buy blank CDs, labels, and
paper for
insert
materials in massive quantities... thereby saving money... in other
words,
they probably don't have considerable overhead aside from paying
someone
to do
these transfers (which, understanding the importance of keeping this
music
alive, would gladly do for them free of charge)... what I am
trying to
say
is, all things considered, considering that they own the
masters and
probably get the raw materials at or below wholesale pricing,
they could
easily charge $10 a CD and make a nice profit on it (and it probably
costs
them less to make a custom CD than it does me, because I buy my
supplies
in
retail quantities at retail prices). I guess part of my point of
view is
that
I am a collector who has always been on a shoestring budget. I
sincerely
hope
I did not offend anyone.
Most Sincerely Yours,
G.E.
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.2/1185 - Release Date:
12/15/2007 12:00 PM