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Re: [ARSCLIST] Technics SP-15 to computer nightmare

Hi Mal:

You are bringing up another good point here, rumble added at the time of recording. This was common, as it was in the LP era (less common later in the LP era). Hum generated at the time of master-cutting was also common both in the 78 era and the earlier LP era. If you look at the best LP mastering places today, they are using super-massive lathes and they are doing mechanical-isolation things that were never a consideration back in the olden days. And, we know a lot more about electrical grounding and signal-isolation these days vs back then. Back in the wax-cutting days, who knew or cared about subsonic anything, or for that matter most content under a couple hundred Hertz. What reproducing equipment, including in the studio, could blast out those frequencies in the first place? And, reproducers tracked heavier and were more rigid, so any subsonic stuff that got impressed on the disk was immaterial to reproduction.

Transcription recordings I've dealt with are frequently not akin to a high quality studio recording of the same time, I would assume because they were done under the gun and on less than perfect disk-recording equipment. I've noted plenty of hum and plenty of rumble, as well as high noise levels and overload distortions indicating clipping in some electronic stage before the cutterhead.

-- Tom Fine

----- Original Message ----- From: "Malcolm Rockwell" <malcolm@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: <ARSCLIST@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Technics SP-15 to computer nightmare


Odd that this phasing observation should arise now.
I have been transferring some mono 1930s ARC test pressings in stereo and noticed that the two signals were seemingly out of phase. I initially thought it might be an incorrectly wired cart, but that turned out not to be the case. Next I looked at the record groove - normal. Then I looked at the signals on the computer again. The run-in to the musical content IS out of phase (that's where all the rumble shows up), but the musical signal itself is in phase!
Shelving at around 80 Hz and notching at both 60 and 120 Hz should do the trick without adversely affecting the program content. I'm going to try that.
Mal

*******


Tom Fine wrote:
One possibility is that the 78 transfer captured enough rumble to set the computer speakers flapping. That would make them sound distorted because most of the mechanical energy is drained off making the speaker "plut". Headphones and car speakers might have no energy transfer at the rumble frequencies and thus be immune to the problem. My experience is that a rumble filter is always a good idea with 78's, and it's better to use it at the same time you're finding the optimum turnover and rolloff settings because killing off the rumble effects other frequencies, and overall loudness of the musical content. Apparently, some of the rumble elements are out of phase to certain musically-relevant elements, so when those elements are not partially or wholly cancelled, they are louder.

-- Tom Fine


----- Original Message ----- From: "Ted Kendall" <sound.restoration1@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: <ARSCLIST@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 5:48 AM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Technics SP-15 to computer nightmare


Your computer speakers or amp are evidently at fault here - maybe they can't handle the surface noise from the 78 - I'd not be inclined to worry about it...

Ted Kendall
----- Original Message ----- From: "gary atkinson" <gary.document@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <ARSCLIST@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Technics SP-15 to computer nightmare


Sometime ago I acquired a Technics SP-15 deck. I took it, at the time as a
"stand by" and it has been "standing by" waiting for it's big moment to
arrive. A few days ago that moment arrived and I transferred a 78rpm record
from it. As it hit the amp it sounded wonderful, both through speakers and
headphones. As it went through the Tascam CC-222SL and onto CD it sounded
splendid. Play the CD back on the Tascam, Marantz, Pioneer and even the car
CD player and everything is beautiful. Play it back through the computer
(desk top and lap top) and the sounds terrible; very distorted and tinny.
All the more odd is that when I play back from the computer (either the CD
or going in directly through and Edirol interface), through an external amp,
it sounds fine, yet when I turn up the computer speakers at the same time
what comes out of them directly from the computer is very distorted.

Anything else played in the same way through the computers; vinyl from a
Thorens, tape from a Teac, any other CD from the Tascam, radio, DATs,
Minisidiscs etc are all fine. After having tried just about every
permutation of phone leads and sockets that I can think of I am homing in on
the SP-15 deck. The computer seem to doesn't like it directly and though
other CD players and amps are happy playing the test CDs that hold
recordings transferred from the deck, again, the computer is not happy when
it comes to tracks taken from the SP-15. (I created a CD with tracks from
various sources and all played fine in the computer other than those taken
from the SP-15).

I am about to set off and get the deck tested and it might be worth noting
that the power lead goes to an AC Converter as this piece of equipment was
from the U.S.A but now resides in the U.K.

Any advice on what could be the cause or how to resolve this conundrum would
be greatly appreciated.

Gary.





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