Re: [ARSCLIST] Quad and SACD (was Re: FBI Warning)

[Michael Biel <m.biel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

From:  Tom Fine <tflists@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> There are some wrong statements here. Suffice to say that the mono 
and stereo
> 1812's were produced (overseen, approved, etc) by Wilma Cozart Fine and
> recorded by Robert Fine.

David Hall was the Classical Music Director thru 1956 and was the 
producer of most, if not all, of the mono-only Olympian Series Living 
Presence, including the mono 1812 recorded  on Dec 2 and 4, 1954 issued 
in 1955.

> In both cases, the gun was recorded separately (both at West Point) 
and the bells
> were recorded separately (the mono at Yale, the stereo at Riverside 
Church). In
> both cases, the LP masters were made using synchronized 35mm 
mag-films, so
> yes there was a dubbing loss on the original LPs.

35 mm film was not used for any of the mono-only recordings, and 
half-inch tape was used for the early years of the stereo masters, with 
a quarter-inch mono running in tandem at first.  From what I see, 35mm 
mag film did not come to Mercury until 1959, which would also be after 
the stereo 1812  which was recorded April 5, 1958, with the bells 
recorded May 10, 1958.  All the blurbs about Mercury and your mother 
stress the live mixing of the three track tapes directly to the lacquers 
rather than dubbing to a production master mix tape.  If they dubbed the 
1812 to 35mm, I suppose it would be for later re-cuttings.  I would hope 
that the earlier pressings would have been made from lacquers cut live 
directly from the original tapes, including the bells and gunshots tape 
being played in sync while the lacquer was cut.
David Hall has specifically discussed how he personally, on several 
Ampexes, edited, overdubbed, redubbed a single gunshot (the 5th of six 
shots fired) to the number of shots they needed, and synced the guns and 
bells to the music tape for the original 1955 mono issue.  Furthermore, 
the sleeve notes (probably written by David) give some additional info 
which is further proof of the use of tape since it is unlikely to find 
35mm machines that run at 45 or 180 feet per minute rather than the 
regular 90 feet..  "The pattern rung by the bells . . . has been further 
enhanced by copying the original tape recorded at twice the 
speed--thereby giving the necessary effect of rapid ringing small 
bells.  The bells as heard in this recording represent a combination of 
the original and the speeded-up tape.
  "Having obtained the necessary original recordings of church bells 
and cannon, these sonic materials were edited into an 'effects' tape 
which was then played in synchronization with the music tape previously 
recorded in Minneapolis.  The final 'composite' is the Living Presence 
recording of the 1812 Overture offered here."

With this being such a big seller, I suppose the re-cutting might have 
been made from dubbed production masters, and maybe they were 35mm 
later, but hopefully the original quarter-inch separate tapes still 
exist.  David, of course, had left Mercury by the time of the 1958 
stereo 1812 and anyway he has mentioned that he only oversaw the monos, 
and your mother did the stereos.  But there is a photo of a 1956 Detroit 
Symphony stereo recording session (March23-24??) with David Hall at the 
stage.
> The stereo CD was made by transferring the gun sequences and bells 
sequences to
> Sonic Solutions and combining them directly (ie live mixing) with the 
3-2 mix from
> the master tape,  -- Tom Fine

Thus, as was the real subject of my original posting, the effects tape 
from, in the case of the stereo version you are describing here, DOES 
exist separately from the music tape and the multichannels available on 
the SACD could give us a version with the music and effects separated 
from the music.  If the original master tapes from the mono still exist, 
that could be done also.  Of course there is the possibility that the 
effects tape master with all the splices has become a warped skewing 
tapeworm.
Michael Biel  m.biel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx