Re: [ARSCLIST] CD-R error rates

[George Brock-Nannestad <pattac@xxxxxxxx>]

From: Patent Tactics, George Brock-Nannestad

Jerry Hartke wrote:

> No effect on measurements other than eccentricity. 

----- may I then conclude that either your hub is excentric or there is a 
ring-shaped gap between the centre hole and the hub?

> I did state "Our high-end Clover system gives very consistent results, 
> and results closely agree with Philips calibration discs."

----- yes, you did, but you did not define "consistent". The Philips 
calibration discs are a fabulous tool, but they do give much information, and 
you did not specify which. Perhaps they have centre holes at the lower end of 
the tolerance.

Kind regards,


George

> 
> Jerry
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
> > [mailto:ARSCLIST@xxxxxxx] On Behalf Of George Brock-Nannestad
> > Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 4:54 PM
> > To: ARSCLIST@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] CD-R error rates
> > 
> > From: Patent Tactics, George Brock-Nannestad
> > 
> > Hello, again,
> > 
> > I am sorry, but neither Parker Dinkins nor Jerry Hartke have answered my
> > question, which may be summarized as: what are the deviations in
> > measurements
> > on the same disc, same diagnostic system, but different placement of the
> > CD
> > on the hub.
> > 
> > All that was given was otherwise useful information that warm-up may be
> > important.
> > 
> > Kind regards,
> > 
> > 
> > George
> > 
> > P.S. We have just bought new bathroom scales, 100 g resolution. However,
> > stepping up, down and up again sometimes gives a deviation of 500 g
> > between
> > measurements. We are not going to hang on to these scales.
> > 
> > ---------------------------------------------
> > 
> > > Our high-end Clover system gives very consistent results, and results
> > > closely agree with Philips calibration discs. Warm-up time is
> negligible
> > -
> > > just long enough for a cup of coffee. The test drive uses a very
> > reliable
> > > Philips pickup head that is no longer available.
> > >
> > > Again, there are no "typical" results for testers. Each one is
> > different,
> > > and reflects the nature of the test drive. Variations are by
> > manufacturer,
> > > by model number, and even by serial number.
> > >
> > > Jerry
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
> > > > [mailto:ARSCLIST@xxxxxxx] On Behalf Of George Brock-Nannestad
> > > > Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 12:28 PM
> > > > To: ARSCLIST@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] CD-R error rates
> > > >
> > > > From: Patent Tactics, George Brock-Nannestad
> > > >
> > > > Jerry Hartke commented on Parker Dinkins, and I have a query:
> > > >
> > > > ----- has anybody tried to perform two or more consecutive tests on
> > the
> > > > same
> > > > tester under two conditions: 1) do not cause any change of the
> > position
> > > of
> > > > the CD on the hub (merely run the test several times) and 2) open
> and
> > > > close
> > > > the drawer or physically rotate the CD on the hub by a known amount?
> > > >
> > > > Mechanical drive problems or at least the range to be expected in
> any
> > > test
> > > > should be demonstrated that way.
> > > >
> > > > Kind regards,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > George
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Jerry:
> > > > > Even expensive testers can give different results. Although
> software
> > > can
> > > > > cause differences, the culprit is usually the drive. Anyway, E12
> and
> > > E22
> > > > > error rates are far more important because they represent errors
> > that
> > > > are
> > > > > approaching an uncorrectable state, and can result in read failure
> > > after
> > > > > degradation caused by handling and storage.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > on 1/7/08 12:37 AM US/Central, Richard L. Hess at
> > > > > arclists@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > So, looking at it this way, what is an acceptable C1 rate for
> > > audio?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Maximum of 220 errors per second, according to the inventors.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > What are others getting?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I had a client ask me how I was burning CDs earlier this year.
> > > They
> > > > > > > have some flavour of Clover analyzer and my CDs were showing
> > lower
> > > > > > > error rates than their in-house CDs--that was a pleasant
> > surprise!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Plextor/Plextools can be somewhat misleading as a test platform.
> > The
> > > > > > errors
> > > > > > on our Stagetech EC2 run two to four times higher for the same
> > > discs.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Parker Dinkins