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Re: [ARSCLIST] OK - Does Anyone Know More About This?



Sheesh, you old-school fellas must have fingers of steel. I'd never think of grabbing hold of a spinning reel on my Ampex 300's. One method I've seen with the VPI NAB hubs (the ones that click-lock) is to put pressure with the palm on the top of the VPI to retard winding speed. I was taught the shuttle method, which takes some practice on a 300 (my fater had several reels of junk tape on hand the day he taught us kids how to do this, and I'm not sure any of them survived the day unscathed), although a 300 has a better fail-safe mechanism than a 350 or AG-440/440B (the 440C includes a fail-safe motion sensor system). If one is shuttling between FF and REW on a 300 and accidently trips the lever switch into PLAY, the machine breaks circuit and stops, brakes engaged. If one is shuttling with the pushbuttons on a 350 or AG-440/440B, and one hits the PLAY button by accident, the machine goes into death-tape-spill mode. If one then reacts by hitting FF or REW, the machine goes into death-tape-shred mode. This was not a problem until you got into the studio drug haze of the late 60's and early 70's when less-than-professional types were operating the machines and couldn't coordinate shuttling correctly while high or tripping. The same less-than-professionals started populating radio production rooms, and thus Ampex got demand to come up with a fail-safe when they were updating the 440B to the 440C. They used a light-pulse system to prevent the machine from going into play until tape motion stopped. AutoTec had a similar system using feedback from a magnetic head and a spinning circular magnet mounted to the bottom of the brake drum. The tape machine would not go into play until pulsing stopped from the magnetic head. I'm sure Scully and 3M also had motion-sensing systems but I don't know any details. I believe that once logic controls came along, this problem went away.

-- Tom Fine

----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Smolian" <smolians@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <ARSCLIST@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 8:54 AM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] OK - Does Anyone Know More About This?



This modification was famous to those of us who grew up on Ampex 350s and 300 who were used to breaking the speeding reels with our fingers. The Maggies would slice into a finger pretty quickly.

Steve Smolian

----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Hodge" <rjhodge@xxxxxxx>
To: <ARSCLIST@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] OK - Does Anyone Know More About This?



FWIW,

Magnecorder had a modification kit which allowed 10.5 inch reels to
run
on the Pt 6. I have one of these machines with the kit..

Bob H.




Robert Hodge, Senior Engineer Belfer Audio Archive Syracuse University 222 Waverly Ave . Syracuse N.Y. 13244-2010

315-443- 7971
FAX-315-443-4866

tflists@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 6/14/2007 8:40 PM >>>
Hi David:

Of course I can't put my hand on any of Bert's articles about those
days right now (I believe he
wrote about it some for Radio & TV News in the 50's and then later at
greater length in Audio
magazine in the 70's), but I think he was running snippets of the
sessions onto tapes, experimenting
with mic placement and maybe levels or the like. The Magnecorder, I
think, used 7" reels, so if he
was going at 15IPS he'd have to be changing tapes frequently. He may
have been told to only record X
minutes of any session but I'm not sure about that because I was under
the impression that he was
pretty much given carte blanche. I imagine it was a trip working with
Stokowski in what was by far
the highest-fidelity stereo medium yet at that point. Stokowski was
veteran of Bell Labs stereo disk
recordings in the 30's and Fantasound optical recordings, so I imagine
he was tough customer about
what sounded right from tape. And he and Bert worked together again
when Stokowski recorded for
Everest.

Speaking of Bert Whyte, he wrote a really nice column after he was
introduced to Mercury 3-channel
stereo:
http://www.wendycarlos.com/surround/surround6.html#column2
Fact correction: the listening venue was actually Fine Sound Studio C
at 711 5th Ave. (today it's
the Coke building, owned by Coca-Cola Co.). I agree with Bert -- there
should have been a 3-channel
consumer medium but it was thought just too complex and expensive at
the time (and, based on how
well quad and later SACD did in the marketplace, perhaps the thinking
was right -- plus no one had
any ideas about a 3-channel disk medium). One other interesting thing
-- Ampex was able to build
3-channel tape machines as early as 9/53 (Ross Snyder of Ampex wrote an
article for International
Sound Technician magazine that showed pictures of a 3-track headstack
and described 3-track magnetic
recording on 1/2" tape), but no one started recording music in 3-tracks
until 1955.

-- Tom Fine

----- Original Message ----- From: "David Lewis" <davlew@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <ARSCLIST@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 7:08 PM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] OK - Does Anyone Know More About This?



Tom,


Thanks for this very helpful answer. That basically answers my
question,
although in this case:

I'm not sure how much tape Bert ran that day but one would think that
if a
tape of the piece you cite existed it would have been issued on that
CD.

There may be hope. "Tabor" is tagged on to the end of a disc that
otherwise
consists of a Stokowski concert in stereo from Detroit, 11/20/1952,
consisting of Jacob Avshalomov's The Taking of T'ung Kuan with the
Tchaikovsky Symphony No. 5. It was included, in part, as the recording
was
at one time mis-marked as being by Stokowski, but was matched to the
Kubelik
performance through comparison. Certainly if there are other bits and
pieces
of Ma vlast in stereo, they would not have fit on the 65 minute CD.

Not that I would throw away my Mercury of "From Bohemia's Woods and
Fields;"
it's still great. But it would be interesting to hear Whyte's recording
if
anything survives of it.

David N. Lewis
Assistant Classical Editor, All Music Guide

"To collect [folksongs] without a phonograph - until there's something
better - is mad and criminal." - Percy Grainger, 1907

-----Original Message-----
From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
[mailto:ARSCLIST@xxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Tom Fine
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 6:07 PM
To: ARSCLIST@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] OK - Does Anyone Know More About This?

Hi David:

As widely written about through the years by Bert Whyte, my father took
him
along on some of the
early Mercury single-mic sessions and Bert was allowed and indeed
encouraged
by those present to
make experimental binaural (what 2-mic recordings were called back
then
although the definition of
binaural has been refined to mean something else now) recordings on
his
Magnacorder staggered-head
machine. I think Bert used a pair of U-47's but I might be wrong.
Apparently
the copyright owner of
these sessions, Universal and/or the CSO, is OK with the CD release of
some
of Bert's tapes (at
least I haven't read about any copyright-infringement actions). The
Stokowski recordings are the
Bell Labs disk recordings from the 1930's, which I believe are PD but
might
not be because an
elaborate agreement was made between Bell Labs and the Stokowski family
and
the Philadephia
Orchestra when Bell Labs issued their LPs in the late 70's (this
according
to the original mastering
engineer; I did some investigating about reissuing a CD from those
master
tapes under AES auspices
but too many rights issues involved). Again, I would assume the issuer
of
the current CD cleared all
these rights or they would have been sued.

I'm not sure how much tape Bert ran that day but one would think that
if a
tape of the piece you
cite existed it would have been issued on that CD.

-- Tom Fine

----- Original Message ----- From: "David Lewis" <davlew@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <ARSCLIST@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 5:00 PM
Subject: [ARSCLIST] OK - Does Anyone Know More About This?



According to Music & Arts' "Stokowski and Kubelik conduct
Experimental
Stereo Recordings from 1952" (MUA 1190) contains an experimental
stereo
recording, made by Bert Whyte, during the sessions for Rafael
Kubelik's
Mercury recording of Ma vlast. The piece is "Tabor," and annotator
Edward
Johnson writes "Other such experiments from THAT and later
Kubelik/CSO
sessions are known to exist but this is the first to be released..."

What "other such experiments" from this session "[is] known to
exist?" I'm
particularly - strongly, in fact - interested in any stereo takes of
the
movement "From Bohemia's Woods and Fields" from this December 1952
session.
Even in mono, this performance is positively electrifying.

David N. Lewis
Assistant Classical Editor, All Music Guide

"To collect [folksongs] without a phonograph - until there's
something
better - is mad and criminal." - Percy Grainger, 1907



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