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Re: [ARSCLIST] Public's rights....was offlist archival question from ARSC list member

Roger, it's not the "fan base's" right to hear what the artist, producer and record company don't want to release. These are COMMERCIAL products. You as a fan do not own the artist, you mearly purchase the right to own and enjoy what the artist puts forward as their art. If you don't like that, take music lessons and make better art. My objection is that this completism usually takes place at the corporate or worse, obsessive-fan or "academic" level after an artist is dead or has no rights or input to the fate of their art. Led Zep is a good example of artists who understood this from the get-go and kept possession of everything (and had a manager, Peter Grant, who enforced their rights). So when Coda came out after the group disbanded, that was it, that was all that was in the can (except for some BBC radio recordings and a couple of live tapes, which had been out on bootlegs for years and were eventually released on CD). You're never going to have some idiotic "10 evolutions of Stairway to Heaven" reissue come out, thankfully. I think what the Beatles did with Anthology was the worst kind of money-grubbing, but I can't say it wasn't totally in control of the artists. I just chose not to spend one red cent on it because I think it disgraces the memory of John Lennon and vastly lowered the esteem I had for the other three.

If voyeuristic completists need to hear "something else," add the studio take announcement and count-off before a take and be done with it!

By the way, writers and visual artists have died with boxes and boxes of notebooks and sketches, much to the detriment of their art in most cases since the completist-fetish "scholars" then go and put all their half-baked ideas (which dillute what they considered their best ideas which were carried forward to finished art) on display in "new retrospective" exhibits. I guess some people are drawn like moths to see how the sausage is made. Do they expect some of the artist-magic-dust will rub off on them? It won't.

-- Tom Fine

----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger and Allison Kulp" <thorenstd124@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <ARSCLIST@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 1:57 AM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Public's rights....was offlist archival question from ARSC list member


No.In the case of rock,a sizeable chunk of facinating,and worthwhile stuff never got issued,but was well worth hearing,when it did finally come out.The Beach Boys "Smile",the countless different versions of "Strawberry Fields Forever", which show the numerous changes the song underwent.The Clash's "vanilla demos".The Sex Pistols stuff,that was so different than the released versions. The psychedlic version of "Submission",being one of the most obvious examples.Joy Division's material as Warsaw.As someone who likes both Robyn Hitchcock,and The Beatles,I very much want to hear Robyn doing "Rain",as a 1986 soundcheck.I want to hear stuff like "Daddy's Song",with Michael Nesmilth singing in a 1920s manner,rather than the released one with Davy.

Demos of songs given to other artists,are always worth hearing.

Just a handful of the hundreds of examples I could cite.Unfortunately some people,like REM will never let their huge fan base hear the hundreds of hours of stuff like this,they have been hoarding for the past 27 years.

Tom Fine <tflists@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: I think everyone who DIDN'T destroy the out-takes, especially in the jazz world, does some rolling
in their graves over the slop that gets added as "bonus" tracks or included in completist reissue
sets. I'm in the camp where I think the producer and artist made decisions at the time of the
original release about what was released -- and in what sequence -- for good reasons and I object to
reissues that over-ride those decisions. It strikes me as voyeuristic or sort of like peering in
someone's bathroom window.

In the world of jazz fans/collectors, there is a crazy obsession with completism. I must say that it
doesn't bother me so much that I don't buy the reissue sets -- I'm just grateful to see the master
takes out there and sometimes in superb quality that is vastly superior to how I, Joe Listener,
could have heard them when they were originally made. But I'm also grateful for Exact Audio Copy
software because the first thing I do with a completist reissue is grab all the songs to WAV and
then reconstruct the original albums in original sequence.

-- Tom Fine

----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Olhsson"
Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 3:04 PM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Public's rights....was offlist archival question from ARSC list member

Don Andes writes:
Opinion A) NO - What gives anyone or everyone the right to be able to
hear every note that said artist recorded?

This is the position the vast majority of artists and producers I know will take. Some destroy
everything but the final master if they think there is even the slightest chance of losing control
over it. They consider it part of their right to privacy to control what the public will have
access to.

Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery, Nashville TN
Mastering, Audio for Picture, Mix Evaluation and Quality Control
Over 40 years making people sound better than they ever imagined!
615.385.8051    http://www.hyperback.com

"If you're not on somebody's watchlist,you're not doing your job"

Dave Von Kleist

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