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Re: [ARSCLIST] One Inch, two track master tapes- 15 or 30 IPS

Refreshing to know other make simple, important mistakes too! I'll add to "where to place the mics" the phrase "and pointed in the right direction!"

<L>
On May 28, 2009, at 4:56 AM, Tom Fine wrote:

The old RCA and Western Electric dialog-recording mics (both ribbon types, I believe, although the WECO could have been a version of the "Birdcage" ribbon/dynamic type) often had a white cross or X printed on the dead side, just to make double-sure the dialog recordist was turning his "fishpole" mechanism so the live side faced the person speaking. The RCA mics acquired the nickname "skunk" mics because of the white cross or X on the backside.

Ken, I don't think any great recording engineer ever gets done learning. It's what a person learns after he knows it all that counts, as they say. So, every time you lug those tape machines out to a gig, you'll acquire more knowledge and then eventually the pieces will come together and you'll love playing back your own tapes.

-- Tom Fine

----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Fritz" <kftooldesign@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <ARSCLIST@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 7:05 AM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] One Inch, two track master tapes- 15 or 30 IPS


Hi Tom,

  In no way was I trying to be sarcastic; If I came across that way
it was unintentional.

  I may be carrying  analog purity a bit too far, however, digital
sound seems to get a bad rap more times than not. I fully realize the
opportunities  of my being able to record great musical performances
are slim but you work with what you have. Microphone techniques will
be another story altogether.

  Trying to get the gear right is the easiest; all it takes is
money:-). The next factor, a good performance, will be harder to find
while microphone placement will take time to learn. On my last
recording, a large choral group in a huge church, I accidentally  had
one of the Peluso 2247 SE mikes turned backwards.    At 11 feet in
the air I didn't notice it as Peluso doesn't grace their mikes with
large emblazoned logos as does Neumann and others. By the time I
noticed my screw up it was too late as the music started; I was using
a cardiod  pattern in the fully packed church . I now have a large
red dot on the front  of the mikes, live and learn.

    Ken
On May 28, 2009, at 6:13 AM, Tom Fine wrote:

Hi Ken:

Not sure if you're being sarcastic, but assuming not. I think it just shows that the media isn't the message with a good recording. Keith Johnson made good recordings on his custom tape rig. He also makes great recordings on his digital rig. I don't believe he's used the tape rig for years now, perhaps more than a decade. A good recording is much more dependent on proper mic placement, great microphones and a recording chain where the goal is output = input (much more achievable with a modern digital setup than with any analog tape format ever, if the real goal is output = input). But the key, key ingredient is a great musical performance in front of these mics. Then the music transcends the technique, humans involved and the medium used for recording and playback. Very rare that all these factors come together, that's why there's a lot of recorded sound out there but most of it doesn't sound very good.

-- Tom Fine

----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Fritz" <kftooldesign@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <ARSCLIST@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 10:07 PM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] One Inch, two track master tapes- 15 or 30 IPS


Hi Tom,

You just knocked my socks off!!.

I think I'll go out in the garden and eat worms, say it isn't so.:-)

Does this mean that that ignorance is bliss?

  Ken
On May 27, 2009, at 9:52 PM, Tom Fine wrote:

Hi Ken:

I assume you and Steve know that TP-007, Eiji Oue/Minnesota Orchestra: Exotic Dances from the Opera, is a digital recording originally. It's available as a 24/96 download at Chesky's HDTracks, and was originally issued as a HDCD Compact Disc. I think Johnson's original recording was 192/24 PCM, but this might date from before he used the super-high sampling rate.

I think TP-003, Arnold/London Philharmonic Orchestra: Arnold Overtures, is also an originally-digital recording. Arnold is also available as a 96/24 download from HDTracks.

-- Tom Fine


----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Fritz" <kftooldesign@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <ARSCLIST@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 9:05 PM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] One Inch, two track master tapes- 15 or 30 IPS


Hi Steve, "Ironbut,"

  I'm  working my way down on the replies to the 1 inch 2 track ATR
posting I sent a day or two ago.

  I met Mike , Bette and Bill two years ago when I signed up for a
class on ATR 101. It was a 5 hour trip from Richmond ,Va. so I drove
up the night before. Everything went wrong. My F350  had a low tire
when I left the hotel to drive to ATR Services. I went the wrong way
on the interstate and drove to ATR on an almost flat tire. I was over
dressed and ,due to the excitement, my Mitchum  broke down. ---:-)

  I picked up my ATR 102 about a year ago and soon after one came up
on ebay. Legacy Studios in Manhattan. Pick up only , no shipping. I
was the only bidder at $2400. An ATR 104 with multiple head blocks,
power supplies and audio cards. It was purchased from Mike Spitz a
few  years earlier and never used as the Legacy tech knew  Studer
machines and not ATR's .

  The last ATR machine came available a month ago. An ATR 1-2 with
Aria electronics and an extra 1/4 inch head  block with 20 hours of
use. The devil made me buy it--

  The Precision Motor Works machine that mates the MR 70 electronics
to an ATR  is a beauty, I hope to hear one some day.

  I spoke with Momma Doc today about  the possibility of asking
Paul Stubblebine if he'd be willing to supply a transfer of a tape
project  issue on 1 inch tape. I hope to hear from him soon .

  If I had a choice of a 1 inch transfer it would be TP 05, 07 or
any of the full scale classical titles they offer.  Personally, I
don't see the value of spending  $$ on a transfer with a limited
number of instruments. Spend the $$ and listen to a musical works
that tax a playback system with dynamics that can only be replicated
with a full symphony  orchestra, my thoughts- I may be wrong.

  Steve, thanks for the reply from a TTP member, you put your money
where your mouth is.

Ken Fritz

On May 27, 2009, at 7:55 PM, carlstephen koto wrote:

Hey Ken,

I recall that you live near and have visited Mike Spitz at ATR Services (I remember you took his alignment class a few years back). I would assume that you either purchased your 1" ATR from him or have had him service it. As a couple of folks have said, it could very well be the ultimate solid state mastering machine. I know that some studios such as Fantasy did do 1/2" 2 tracks (I have a Dexter Gordon from them) but I don't know of any golden age studios that used them. Aside from Mike, MTR Precision Motor Works also used to set up 1" 2 track mastering machines. You may want to contact them both and contact the studios that purchased these machines and perhaps you can strike a deal to at least hear these masters.
http://www.precisionmotorworks.com/atr100.htm

Regarding the Tape Project, I'm sure you know that Paul (Stubblebine) has two 1" 2 track machines that are used in the production of our tapes. One is an ATR with Tim de Paravicini's custom electronics while the other is an MM1200 with MR70 electronics ( I believe that Mike Spitz set this machine up when he was still located in San Mateo). I'm sure you could commission a couple of custom tapes to be produced for you . I would hurry though. They have purchased the rights to produce a limited number of releases and I would certainly try and get a 1" copy of "Waltz for Debby" and "Saxophone Colossus" if I were you (they'd be as close to exact duplicates of the master as you'd ever get).

Steve Koto
On May 26, 2009, at 7:58 PM, Ken Fritz wrote:

Hi Lou,

I'm a subscriber to TTP and appreciate the quality that tape delivers.

I'm hoping to find a few listers that have studio tapes from groups that never made the big time but cut great sounding tapes. I've managed to purchase tapes from now defunct studios in Memphis and LA but all are 1/4 or 1/2 inch two track at i5 or 30 ips. I'm hoping to find a few 1 inch two track tapes if they're out there.

  thanks for the reply, Ken Fritz
On May 26, 2009, at 9:04 PM, Lou Judson wrote:

No Beatles on on inch 2 track as far as I know.

But you can probably pay these guys to make you some tapes to play on your new toy:

<http://www.tapeproject.com/>

Worth asking anyway!

<L>
Lou Judson • Intuitive Audio
415-883-2689


On May 26, 2009, at 5:43 PM, Ken Fritz wrote:

Hi Listers,

I'm probably one of the few on the list that is an " Audiophile." That translates to "Music is fun and not a business." "Thank God" might be the next phrase but since my business supplies tooling to those that manufacture solid surface and cast marble to the construction industry I think we're both in the same boat. To the point!

Analog tape is where the great recordings started and I'm keeping it going by filling my home with around 20 or so analog RTR machines. I belong to an audio group in Richmond Va. and they all marvel at the sound of tape. I just bought a one inch two track ATR and have nothing to play on it. I feel like I just bought a tuxedo and only have a pair of brown shoes--- no place to go!

If anyone out there has a one inch two track tape that would show off what my machine can do and would CONSIDER sending it to me I'd appreciate it. The Genre isn't as important as the musical content. If a lister has a safety copy of the Beatles, any recording, I can send an armed carrier along with my first born for insurance-:), Any and all costs and insurance would be covered, of course.

any reply will be appreciated, Ken Fritz



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