Re: [ARSCLIST] Lacquer disc storage conditions

[Michael Biel <mbiel@xxxxxxxxx>]

Like George B-N in Denmark I've also seen those imprints of Pyral and
AudioDisc trademarks in pressings, but have also seen evidence of Reeves
Soundcraft.  In some cases the level of quality control were the reasons
for discs being selected for different grades.  While there were some
differences in thickness of aluminum base and the number of lacquer
coatings in a company's different grades, they sometimes just sold at a
lower grade and price a disc that didn't pass the highest quality.  That
usually was the reason for the "Use Other Side" on mastering discs. 
Since many mastering engineers would not want to flip a lacquer over and
record on the side that had already touched the turntable, why pay a
premium price for a disc where both sides passed quality control and
save some money and buy the ones where there might be a flaw on the
other side.  

Some of the earliest Cecil Watts Margarette Sound Studio MSS discs in
the mid-30s were recordable ONLY on one side because the second side
just had dark blue paint on it, not lacquer.  You would have had to
REALLY be careful using those!  And during WW II there were some
re-coating companies which stripped lacquer off old discs and re-coated
only one side.  It cut down on the expense if you HAD to use an aluminum
instead of glass.  

From what I heard from the son of the founder of Presto, AudioDevices
had been founded in the late 30s by several former Presto employees. 
They had an idea of a unique way of coating the discs, and if it is true
it might be why I seem to find AudioDiscs with lacquer peeled off in
large pieces more often than other brands.  They coated the aluminum
base with a sheet of solidified lacquer.  The first Presto discs from
1934 and 35, like the MSS discs, were sprayed.  These had the lacquer
covering the entire disc all the way to the center.  Presto then changed
to a dipping process and the lacquer does not go all the way to the
center.  The aluminum was held with a rubber stopper on the center.  The
Green Seal was painted on to cover that condition, as well as give the
discs their name.  Some discs show the Presto name in bare aluminum
around the center hole, and later ones with improved "Q" lacquer have a
bare Q around the center hole.  When they moved to Paramus, New Jersey,
around 1939 they switched to a system of having the disc on a conveyor
belt passing thru a curtain of lacquer falling down between a
knife-edged gap.  Once again the lacquer goes all the way to the center.
 The discs dried on the belt passing the long distance between the front
and back of the long and narrow building that I passed so many times
during my childhood.  

Mike Biel  mbiel@xxxxxxxxx

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Lacquer disc storage conditions
From: George Brock-Nannestad <pattac@xxxxxxxx>
Date: Fri, November 21, 2008 11:49 am
To: ARSCLIST@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

From: Patent Tactics, George Brock-Nannestad

Hello, I would like to tell you about my most exciting find of a proof
that
an Audiodisc had been used in mastering and how it was used.

But first of all I would mention that there were two kinds of lacquers:
those
used for mastering and those used for demos, called "playback lacquers".
The
latter were slightly tougher and noisier. The discerning cutting
engineer
would also know the difference between a "spring lacquer" and an "autumn
lacquer".

Now, in my constant quest for secondary or ancillary information I
cannot see
a 78rpm label whithout looking also at the "below the label"
information.
This will tell you about the type of press used, and e.g. Victor ca.
1930s
recordings issued on Electrola will often reveal most of the original
American writing at the centre of the wax (or metal, as the case may
be).

Now, the Danish pressing by the local EMI branch of the black Pathé 10"
record (matrix CPT.9407) PT1005 is Liebeslied (Valse) by Kreisler, arr.
A
Bernard, performed by Armand Bernard et son orchestre á cordes (a
string
orchestra). I have not had sufficient interest in the primary
information
(the music!) to check the date, but it looks like mid-1950s. Below the
label
there is a very slight relief showing the make of the original laquer,
and -
surprisingly - it is not a Pyral, it is an AudioDisc. Those who know
what
these look like in the raw will know how I can tell..

However, the most intriguing thing is that on a circle of the same
radius as
the name, there is the statement "USE OTHER SIDE"! Obviously they did
not
heed the instruction, and my excitement comes from speculating how this
can
be. Did the cutting engineer not read English? Did he say (in French),
"what
the heck, it is only for a 78 - they won't notice the difference", or
was it
the last available unrecorded side after innumerable attempts to get a
good
cut?

At any rate, in addition to the quality factors mentioned above, there
was
obviously also an awareness at AudioDisc that there was a preferential
side
to the laquer. And as one sign of a good lacquer was that it had a
continuous
lacquer layer around the edge of the aluminum plate, you could not make
single-sided lacquers that had any chance of longevity.

How did I make this under-label information visible, you may ask. I used
the
old detective's pencil trick used on notepads near hotel telephones:
brass
rubbing.

Kind regards,



George


Roger Kulp wrote:
> ................................
>
> Audiodisc was a label that was used by both home recordists,and
> professionals.I have seen Bing Crosby lacquers  from the 40s,recorded by
> Decca with their own labels plastered over the Audiodisc ones,as well as
> homemade records of little Johnny saying Merry Christmas to grandmaw on
> Audiodisc.It was also used for a lot of professional quality recordings made
> by radio stations back in the day.
>
>
>                                                  Roger
>
>
>
>
> --- On Wed, 11/19/08, Jeffrey Martin <jjm332@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> From: Jeffrey Martin <jjm332@xxxxxxx>
> Subject: [ARSCLIST] Lacquer disc storage conditions
> To: ARSCLIST@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Date: Wednesday, November 19, 2008, 1:09 PM
>
> I'm trying to advise a colleague who has recently discovered some
> 1960s-era
> lacquer discs in her collection. (They're recorded on Audio Devices
> Audiodiscs.) What are the preferred conditions for storing lacquer discs?
> She
> has access to cold storage (40 degrees F), cool storage (55 degrees F) and
> obviously standard office HVAC storage.
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Jeff Martin
> Chicago, IL
>
>
>
>