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Re: [ARSCLIST] Fwd: [ARSCLIST] Philips U.S. releases in the 60's
One addition,Don,there seem to be two completely different pressing plants involved,as I believe I mentioned.The ones that are definitely Mercury,are on a glossy label,that is clearly laminated,as I have seen a few where the lamination has separated,and is almost peeling.The inferior pressings,are an an unlaminated label,which is almost gray.These have distinctively Columbia markings in the dead vinyl,and were probably pressed,around 1967,or '68.
1969 was just an estimation as to when they switched to importing pressings from Holland.It's good to know,I wasn't really off,but did you ever see an older export issue,like the Clara Haskil I described ? Yes it really is as I described.So there WERE imported pressings,with US printed heavy cardboard,laminated covers,which copied the Dutch ones,exactly,and Dutch pressed records,but my guess is these were probably only sold in small quantity,in select Latin American markets,as the person I bought it from,lived in Mexico.
Roger
Don Tait <Dontaitchicago@xxxxxxx> wrote: I have only noticed this thread today. I hope it isn't too late to reply to
Tom's question, because I remember Epic Records and the Philips connection
very well.
The classical American Philips LPs in heavy cardboard sleeves were entirely
manufactured in the USA. By Mercury. The series began, if I recall correctly,
in or around 1961. The mono catalogue numerical series was PHM500-xxx, the
stereo PHS900-xxx -- different from any European Philips numbering system. The
early pressings read "Philips Records Chicago 1, Illinois" at the bottom of the
labels. Later ones had, in tiny print on the front, "Mercury Records
Corporation, 35 E. Wacker Drive, Chicago, Illinois 60601." The series lasted until
around 1968 or '69, at which point American pressings and packages ended and
European Philips imports became the norm.
The number of titles released on this domestic Philips label was a tiny
fraction of the European catalogue, and in Chicago at any rate I never saw
imported Philips LPs for sale except in tiny numbers during that time. I also
had/have the feeling that the entire European Philips catalogue was never
subsequently imported to the USA, but have no evidence.
As for reissues on domestic Philips of titles that had previously been in
the Epic catalogue: I remember few, if any. I do believe that the van
Beinum/Concertgebouw Orchestra recording of Handel's Water Music (made in stereo) was
reissued on the budget-priced World Series label. That might be about it. Part
of this was that Columbia introduced the Epic label in 1953 as a way to issue
Philips recordings in the USA, plus some Columbia product. By the time stereo
was introduced in 1957, there had been hundreds of mono classical Epic LPs. By
1961, with stereo, there were many more. They gradually disappeared from the
catalogue.
As others pointed out last month, some Philips classical music recordings
were issued on World Series. That was used for Philips. As I recall, all but a
few titles on Wing came from the Mercury catalogue.
A final word: Tom has written about Mercury pressings from different
periods. I remember the first American Philips LPs and still have two; they were
excellent pressings, just as good as Mercury's at the time. As the 1960s went on
the quality of pressings declined until, by 1968 or so, it was very inferior.
The introduction of the superb imported pressings was like a revelation.
Don Tait
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The limited number of Philips albums done "Mercury style" that Roger mentions were pressed for USA
at the same RCA plant as the rest of the Living Presence. I believe 2-track masters were sent to
Holland to master for European pressing, although the case could be that a laquer was sent to Europe
and plant parts were made from that. After maybe 1964 or 1965, I think Philips ended that
arrangement with RCA and moved all Mercury pressing to Mercury plants. But, they improved the
quality at the Richmond plant so later Living Presence pressings are usually just fine. In fact if
you compare a late 60's re-press of the early stereo Mercury jazz to an original press, the later
press usually sounds much better. Exception is the Wing jazz reissues of the early 70's, which seem
to be pressed on trash can lids in some cases. The Wing cheapo-repackages of the classical catalog
are from earlier on, the early 60's and then batches throughout the 60's. Not worth buying, by the
way. If it says Wing and Mercury, collectors know to avoid. Also worth avoiding are the late 60's
"heritage" series of mono reissues with phoney stereo (echo) added in. Those were done at Mercury's
own mastering facility. I'm not necessarily objecting to the cutting skill on those, mainly the
phoney stereo and fitting 30 minutes per side on noisy vinyl.
The Philips I'm talking about is not the few "Mercury style" records, and also not the few jazz
albums that were issued here right after the acquisition of Mercury (Woody Herman, about whose
marketability Irving Green had some doubts, was assigned to the Philips label and ended up selling
pretty well and setting himself up for a good run for the rest of the 60's, Dizzy Gillespie also
made albums under the Philips label, but otherwise it was mostly US issues of European jazz albums).
What I'm talking about are the Philips label albums of European orchestras and what sound like
European recordings but packaged in the heavy Mercury-style/US-style cardboard sleeves, not the
thinner heavy-paper sleeves typical in Europe at that time. The records also look and feel like
Richmond Mercury pressings so I'm guessing they were made there. What I was wondering is if Philips
issued its whole catalog in parallel here during that period or just selected releases aimed at US
consumers. By the mid or late 70's, if I went into a record store to buy a Philips record, it would
be the familiar maroon-stripe albums made in Europe and imported here, or at least sleeved into a
European-style sleeve. However, even at that time, Philips classical had a completely separate and
mostly autonomous US division.
-- Tom Fine
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger and Allison Kulp"
To:
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 12:43 AM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Philips U.S. releases in the 60's
> Tom,David,et al,
>
> I have never seen a US budget Mercury reissue of a Philips Lp.I'm not saying they don't
> exist,but,I have never seen one.Their buget label was "Wing",that put out inferior reissues of
> mono Living Presences.There are the Mercury-pressed Philips of Willem Mengelberg,which I think are
> grossly underrated.Tom,you are well aware of the Svastiaslv Richters,on Philips,that your mom
> produced,in like 1963,and '64.
>
> Some of these deep groove US PhilipsLps,on a black glossy label,are as good as Living
> Presences,IMHO.These would be the pressings from roughly 1963-67, by '68,they were beginning to go
> downhill,as were Mercurys themselves.Philips began to export records to the US,around late 1969,or
> early 1970,perhaps Don,or someone else could clarify this date.Both British and Dutch pressings
> were imported.
>
> Philips did,indeed,export pressings,from Holland,to other countries before this.I just learned
> this last year,when I bought such a record,from somebody in Mexico .(eBay of course.)This is one
> of those 1956 Clara Haskil Mozart Jubilee Lps.The pressing is a post-minigroove maroon label Dutch
> pressing from the early 60s.(No photo of record in the listing,just the cover.) I cannot recall,if
> it says "Made in Holland" on the label,it may not.The cover is a copy of the Dutch one,except it
> looks like it was printed in The US.Heavy,laminated cardboard,like an early 60s Merc.On the back
> cover,is a round orange sticker,slightly smaller than a quarter,that says imported from Holland,in
> Spanish.
>
>
> Roger
>
> David Lennick wrote: Philips came into the picture when US Columbia lost
> its arrangement with
> English Columbia, which began exporting its product to the US as Angel (around
> 1953). There were no imported Philips pressings sold over here in the 50s
> except odd items like musicals and revues (Joyce Grenfell etc). Epic probably
> relied a lot more on Philips than Columbia, being a new label with not much
> homegrown classical product except Szell and the Cleveland Orchestra, but all
> Beecham's recordings appeared on Columbia (that was probably because of a
> contract with Beecham). As well, all US Columbia product that was issued in
> Europe came out on Philips.
>
> As for recycling the 50s Philips recordings once Philips owned Mercury, I
> recall some domestic pressings and budget reissues, but I'd say (without being
> certain) that the full price stuff came in as imports, as did Deutsche
> Grammophon titles in the 60s (there was a period when those were imported by
> MGM and packaged on this side).
>
> Partial answer, anyway. One way to answer whether Columbia and Epic held onto
> old titles is to check in 60s Schwanns.
>
> dl
>
> Tom Fine wrote:
>> I'm hoping there is a student of Philips history here.
>>
>> As I understand it, before Philips bought Mercury, they had a U.S.
>> distribution deal with Epic (CBS). I've seen Epic tapes and LPs of
>> Concertgabouw (sp?) and I Musici and perhaps others. After Philips
>> bought Mercury, by the mid-60's, they had a bunch of their classical
>> records on sale here, I believe manufacturered here and sleeves like
>> Mercury records (not thin paper like European Philips records from the
>> 60's).
>>
>> So here are my questions:
>>
>> 1. Was some or all of the material originally out on Epic reissued on US
>> Philips?
>> 2. Was the entire European classical catalog issued here by the mid-60's?
>> 3. Were the LPs indeed manufactured in the US or just sleeved here?
>> 4. Were new masters cut or were European manufacturing parts sent here?
>>
>> -- Tom Fine
>>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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