Re: [ARSCLIST] Folkways Reissues

["Mike Biel, per David Lennick" <dlennick@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

(From Mike Biel, forwarded by DL)

I have been FUMING here since I saw the original posting from Garr Norwick, 
just itching to reply but having trouble posting thru web mail right now.  I am 
glad that there have been a couple of very good replies, such as this one from 
John Ross and earlier from Jim Nelson.  But with his recent posting now I 
understand where Garr is coming from.  Without him admitting he is 23 I 
wouldn't have known it because his writing is more mature than that. I don't 
know whether it makes me feel it excuses him or if he needs an introduction to 
the real world.  After all, we were all 23 once, many of my students are that 
age, and so is my daughter, Leah, who many of you know from here attendance at 
ARSC.  I was once  a young whippersnapper sitting at the feet of the pioneers 
of this field.  So Garr, come over here and listen to the Ole' Perfesser tell 
you about the real world.

Back around 1986 at the Chicago ARSC, when Tony Seeger first unveiled the 
Smithsonian's plans for the Asch and Cook archives, you could hear the room 
heave a sigh of relief.  They were going to do a good job and it was going to 
be CHEAP!!!!!!  Garr, FIFTEEN BUCKS IS CHEAP!!!!!!!  It was cheap twenty years 
ago in the days of cassettes, and it is even MORE of a bargain now in the days 
of CDs and inflation.  Dubs off the MASTER TAPES!!!  Photocopies of the 
original notes!!  We sometimes didn't get them with the original LPs. (Moe 
admitted that sometimes he didn't include them to force the purchasers to send 
in the postcard so he could enlarge his mailing list!!!)  This was better than 
going to Moe's office and trying to find a copy of the LP.

Have you ever tried to get a recording out of the Library of Congress or the 
National Archives thru their technical service depts?  Go on their web sites 
and take a gander.  Also look at the hoops you will have to jump thru at LC to 
get clearances before even getting permission to pay them to do the job.  Then 
take a look thru the names of some of the posters on this list who are 
professional restoration engineers. Sorry guys, because some of you are my 
friends of long standing, but some of your charges make LC look cheap!

Garr, you and I are in a different world and different league from the pros. 
We do it for fun, they have to feed their families on this. Even at the 
Government. As Bob Carneal, the then chief audio engineer at LC told me 30 
years ago, "Mike, the audio lab here at LC is not taxpayer supported.  We have 
to pay our way with the work we do.  And we have to be able to defend ourselves 
if we are accused of unfair competition with professional studios."

Some of the guys on this list were also good friends of the late George 
Blacker.  We all have at least several boxes of reels of tape of all sizes of 
some of the rarest records in the world with slips in them typed so full of 
information that there are no margins on them.  George never asked a dime from 
us.  We usually didn't know the tapes were coming.  We had just chatted with 
George at a Syndicate meeting or on the phone and the subject of the record 
came up or he just found it and knew we would also be interested in it.  Boy do 
I miss George.  Not because of all those tapes, but because he would have been 
the number one poster on all of these internet lists. George, George, George, 
what you missed, and what we all have missed without you. And lonely Bill 
Bryant up in Maine.  These lists are what he craved way up there.  Bill also 
sent out tapes of rare records.  No charge.  And Milford Fargo.  (I don't mean 
to break out the Kleenex box guys, but the story fits.  And these guys DO 
deserve our reverent memory)
And these certainly were not and are not the only ones freely exchanging time, 
information, and recordings.

Perhaps it is not so ironic that as soon as I finish this I am going down to 
school, and now that exams are over, I'm doing two dubbings I promised a few 
weeks ago.  The Kiddierecordking is getting a dub of Molly Bee's Willy Claus a 
client of his needs, and I am sending scans of the disc which Molly autographed 
for me in October.  No charge, but I'm sure he will be returning with a dub of 
the one childrens record I've not been able to re-collect from my childhood. 
He showed me he did have a copy of it when I was over at his place.  Then I am 
doing a CD dub of an uncoated aluminum disc for someone from California.  It 
was a Walter Garwick recording and we were hoping it might be a folkie, but it 
is just a better version of a Florence Foster Jenkins type.  And next week Neil 
Shell and I are going to exchange dubs of the one disc of the 1932 Shilkret RCA 
broadcast series that we each has that the other one is missing.  And I have 
also done dubs of home discs or wires for people here in town for just 5 or 10 
bucks.  But this is not my business and I am not doing any fancy restoration work.

Garr, you and I are in the same boat as each other, just that I've been doing 
it for forty years longer than you.  And some of the pros on this list started 
out the same way but then went into business doing it.  Maybe you will too. 
George, Bill, Milford, and I didn't.  We all had our day jobs.  (Well, maybe 
George didn't, but he said he wanted to get a day job.)

We should all be thankful that the Smithsonian provides that service.  Very few 
other archives do at that price.  And remember, all that we are doing is 
without paying any of the royalties that would be due in the commercial world 
and would increase the price.  Since all of this I've discussed has been in 
relationship with research and educational work that we do, or a technical job 
for the owner of the non-professional original, we don't have the rights 
questions that was mentioned by others concerning the Smithsonian.

Don't mean to lecture, but it come naturally.

Mike (the old perfesser) Biel  mbiel@xxxxxxx




Quoting John Ross <johnross@xxxxxxxxxxx>:

> There's a huge difference between your making a one-off CD copy of a
> recording and operating a business that provides a similar service from
> a catalogue of several thousand titles.
>
> First, there's staff: not only a technician to burn the copies and
> maintain the equipment, but also one or more archivists to catalogue
> and maintain the collection; somebody to accept orders and handle
> billing and payments; a webmaster to create and maintain the online
> catalogue; and somebody to handle marketing and publicity. I'm probably
> leaving something out.
>
> Second, in order to provide that special-order service, it's necessary
> to create and maintain an extensive archive of audio files, cover art
> and images of the booklets that accompanied every Folkways LP. That's
> another cost.
>
> Third, unlike Moe Asch, who was notorious for being slow (or stagnant)
> about paying royalties, the Smithsonian actually keeps track of sales
> of those special orders and sends royalty payments to the performers on
> those special-order items. As Tony Seeger, the former director of
> Smithsonian/Folkways once told me, "As an agency of the U.S.
> Government, we have an obligation to respect copyrights and performing
> rights."
>
> Or consider the same question from another direction: If you're really
> efficient, it might take you an hour to make a clean copy of a
> 45-minute LP; more if it requires noise reduction, de-clicking or other
> processing. Isn't your time worth more than $15 per hour?
>
> John Ross
>
> At  12/14/2007 07:35 AM, Garr Norick  wrote:
>> Don't get me wrong... please understand that I admire what Folkways  is 
doing, and it is something that needs to be done... Maybe this  illustration 
will show me what I mean... I have a private  collection of music... I have 
been collecting for 20 years, and I  am 23 years old... Say someone wanted a CD 
dub of a recording in my  collection... I could transfer it onto CD and xerox 
the liner notes  for them, and this would cost me at most one dollar. I could 
charge  them five dollars for the whole thing, plus shipping, and make a  500% 
profit... Smithsonian, a government entity, owns the rights to  all these 
masters outright... they probably buy blank CDs, labels,  and paper for insert 
materials in massive quantities... thereby  saving money... in other words, 
they probably don't have  considerable overhead aside from paying someone to do 
these  transfers (which, understanding the importance of keeping this  music 
alive, would gladly do for them free of charge)... what I am  trying to say
>> is, all things considered, considering that they own the masters  and 
probably get the raw materials at or below wholesale pricing,  they could 
easily charge $10 a CD and make a nice profit on it (and  it probably costs 
them less to make a custom CD than it does me,  because I buy my supplies in 
retail quantities at retail prices). I  guess part of my point of view is that 
I am a collector who has  always been on a shoestring budget. I sincerely hope 
I did not  offend anyone.
>>
>>  Most Sincerely Yours,
>>  G.E.
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------
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