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Re: [ARSCLIST] A stinky puzzle



No, DO NOT BAKE acetate. It will shrink and curl and this cannot be reversed.

My recommendation with vinegar tapes is transfer them sooner rather than later. And don't expect the original to last forever, so make a good transfer while you can. Some like to make safety audio tapes, which might be a good idea if you don't have a rock-solid managed digital storage system.

Kodak tapes -- I have yet to get one here that plays well or is not vinegar-infested. I just had one that, thankfully, turned out to have nothing on it. Just the act of playing it ended up with, literally, a square tape pack. It was so curl-prone that just releasing it from its vinegar-full pack made it impossibly deformed. At least the oxide didn't fall off, which has been known to happen with Kodak tapes.

Kodak brand has by far been the worst examples of vinegar ruination I've seen. I've seen plenty of Scotch 111 with vinegar, too, but not so deformed as to end up with a square tape pack. All of the vinegar tapes in my own collection with content worth transferring have been transferred and all the vinegar tape is long gone to the landfill.

As for vinegar slides or negatives, I've never encountered them but I guess it's possible.

-- Tom Fine


----- Original Message ----- From: "Kiwi O'Connell" <kiwioconnell@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <ARSCLIST@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] A stinky puzzle



Hi

The smell is "Very" distinctive!  Some call it vinegar, I call it dirty
smelly old socks.  It is unmistakable.

By the way, it is my understanding that you do NOT bake acetate tape.

Cheers
Marie



Marie O'Connell
Sound Archivist/Audio Engineer/Sound Consultant
3017 Nebraska Avenue
Santa Monica, CA, 90404
Ph: 310-453-1615
Fax: 310-453-1715
Mobile: 601-329-6911
www.cupsnstrings.com


-----Original Message----- From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:ARSCLIST@xxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Robert Hodge Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 12:55 PM To: ARSCLIST@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] A stinky puzzle

I have encountered many reels of 35 and 28 mm motion picture safety film
which had developed vinegar syndrome- including some which had gone so
badly as to be easily detected- even beyond through 2 sets of closed
doors while stored in a projection room  film storage vault.
Not to mention, lately, even more reels of 16 mm .

Not to be confused with the aroma of camphor which eminates from
diacetate stock even when it was new.

Decomposing nitrate has neither the aroma of vinegar or camphor. I'm
not sure how to describe that aroma as it is very unique. Acrid
perhaps.

Storing your slides in an isolated location, with molecular sieves,
will slow the VS. In time, if the slides no longer exhude acetic acid
odor, then they probably don't have VS.

Bob Hodge


Robert Hodge, Senior Engineer Belfer Audio Archive Syracuse University 222 Waverly Ave . Syracuse N.Y. 13244-2010

315-443- 7971
FAX-315-443-4866

doncox@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx 4/21/2007 7:01 AM >>>
On 20/04/07, andy kolovos wrote:

Folks,

Last week I opened up a plastic shopping bag that contained to
things:
a slide carousel filled with 35mm slides and a reel of tape. The
pair
form a slide-tape show on the topic of, apparently, maple sugaring.

The first thing to greet me was the pronounced stink of vinegar.
Very
pronounced.

I assumed the tape was the culprit and put it aside to reek on its
own.
 However, upon holding it up to light later, I did not encounter the

usual acetate translucence--the pack was totally opaque.

This got me thinking about the slides again. Did Kodak (or anyone
for
that matter, since the slides in the carousel seem to be a slightly
mixed bag) produce acetate slide film? Could the slides be going
vinegary?

And about the tape--it's a 7" reel of 1/4" tape. Poorly packed. the

backing of the tape has "Eastman Kodak Co" printed on it. It's in a

black plastic Sctoch 211 box (the kind with the smoked plastic drop
front) and on a blue plastic Scotch reel.  It is my guess that the
recording dates from the mid 1960s--this is going on information from

the donor (whose father made the recording).

This whole thing confuses me a bit because it undermines two basics
of
what I've been taught on the matter::

1. Only acetate will develop vinegar syndrome
2. Acetate tape will appear translucent when held up to light.

I am forced to consider that it could be a polyester tape with a
vinegar problem /or/ an acetate tape that is opaque when held up to
light.

If the slides are going vinegary, could the vinegar problem have an
impact on polyester-backed tape?  Did Kodak make a non-translucent
acetate backing?

In any event, after separating the tape from the slides, the slides
still stink, but not nearly as bad, while the tape (which admittedly
is somewhat sealed in it's case) stinks as bad as ever.

Any thoughts?

Having used a wide variety of photographic films over the decades, I have never come across any kind of smelly decay. Dyes may fade, and residual fixer can attack a silver image, but no smell.

Regards
--
Don Cox
doncox@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx



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