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Re: [ARSCLIST] Libraries disposing of records
This is ideological drivel. Most archives and research collections that I'm familiar with have wrestled in real time with the issues of resources and their mission of public stewardship. The most useful point made in this discussion was made early on, their are distinct varieties of libraries.
Paul "lack to lurking" Tyler
Tom Fine <tflists@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: Hi Blake:
Good luck with your Utopian dreams. Fact is, things cost money and money is limited. Saving
"everything" willy-nilly takes space and space costs money. Genuine preservation takes expertise and
expertise costs money. Free market is the best way to assure what's of value -- as in economic
value -- gets preserved. The rest is an uphill haul. I welcome you to cart away as much of everyone
else's curbside boxes or dumpsters full of 78's as you wish. There is little chance that what you
gather up will be usable or even extant past your lifetime. I just don't buy into the "try and keep
everything" MO because I think it's not realistic and a foolish waste of limited resources.
Decisions need to be made in each era, what was really of value here? Yeah, tastes change but some
things are pretty timeless or made a huge impact in their time. Obscure stuff produced by obscure
people is simply not of as much greater-societal value so it is likely not to survive. I know the
culture today strives to make everyone feel "unique" and "important," but the simple fact is that in
every era of human activity, a few people do the heavy lifting on the agenda and the rest lead quiet
lives of marginal wider value (but great value to themselves and those immediately connected). This
might pour some cold water, but it's just how the world works. What ends up "preserved", if history
so far is any guide, is not the whole thing but a stilted and biased representation of the
time/place, which by the way is the same with the written history. Like it or hate it, it is The Way
It Is.
Another point -- I know a few "grab everything to save it" types who call themselves "collectors."
They're not, they are accumulators and are so over-run with junk that they cannot find or enjoy the
true treasures in their piles of stuff. One of them will be very lucky if he makes it to his natural
death without a premature end caused by a heavy pile of books and records of highly varied value,
age and condition falling on top of him. As he's gotten older, less and less joy is to be had from
his "collection" because it is, in the end, a pile of junk and he can't ever enjoy it because he has
to spend so much time sifting it to find any specific thing. A collector, by the old-school
definition, is discriminating and limits his collection to the items he deems finest. A guy who
goes and dives every dumpster to save every copy of every shellac is firstly on a fool's errand and
secondly nothing but an accumulator who dooms his pile to an eventual trip back to the dumpster.
-- Tom Fine
----- Original Message -----
From: "D. Blake Werts"
To:
Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 8:13 PM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Libraries disposing of records
> To bring it full-circle with the currently running "discarding books"
> thread, imagine saying something similar about the printed page: humor me
> and replace references to 78s and etc, with Classic Literature/books/etc:
> (this may or may not work... but lets try...)
>
> At the risk of offending bibliophiles, etc., I'll offer a similar reality
> check, in line with Bob's [and Tom's] postings.
> Guys, Classic Literature/Books are a real FRINGE/NICHE. Anything with any
> remote chance of "mass market" is out on DVD or
> YouTube. Most people just don't like Old/Middle/Victorian English of
> yesteryear. Yes, there are some Classic Work reprints where they went back
> to the original manuscripts and used modern, accessible, and marketable
> rewrites, and it's great that modern life offers that wonderful Literature
> in a better-than-original mass-market format. But those dusty tomes, they're
> just a novelty nowadays, in most but not all cases. Now, that said, of
> course I'll grab a pile from the curbside if the works are anything I'm
> remotely interested in because I still like to read books for my nieces and
> nephews to show them "ye olde entertainment activities". But I limit my book
> "collection" to one bookshelf and I'd heave it first if I got in a space
> crunch. Illuminated manuscripts -- I'm really glad has that
> archive online but I can't see how anyone would read that stuff for
> enjoyment. It reads worse than a material written from another world! But,
> back to my main point, if there's a profitable market
> for something, it finds its value and there apparently is no market for
> most Classic Literature.
>
> ---
>
> Please note that I certainly do not feel this way. I'm just hoping that
> folks will understand the metaphor--and appreciate the fact that it is ALL
> valuable material shellac or paper or whatever else!
>
> D. Blake Werts
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Fine"
> To:
> Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 6:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Libraries disposing of records
>
>
>> At the risk of offending some on list, I have to offer a reality check, in
> line with Bob's posting.
>> Guys, 78's are a real FRINGE/NICHE. Anything with any remote chance of
> "mass market" is out on CD or
>> iTunes. Most people -- myself included -- just don't like bad quality
> sound. Yes, there are some 78
>> reissues where they went back to metal parts and used tasteful, effective
> and sound-improving
>> digital restoration, and it's great that modern life offers that wonderful
> music in a
>> better-than-original mass-market format. But those shellac disks, they're
> just a novelty nowadays,
>> in most but not all cases. Now, that said, of course I'll grab a pile from
> the curbside if the music
>> is anything I'm remotely interested in because I like to play the Victrola
> for my nieces and nephews
>> to show them "ye olde sound equipment". But I limit my 78 "collection" to
> one milk crate and I'd
>> heave it first if I got in a space crunch. Edison cylinders -- I'm really
> glad UCSB has that archive
>> online but I can't see how anyone would listen to that stuff for
> enjoyment. It sounds worse than a
>> phone call over the Internet from Europe! But, back to my main point, if
> there's a profitable market
>> for something, it finds its value and there apparently is no market for
> most 78's.
>>
>> -- Tom Fine
>>
>> PS -- regarding that comment about sending 78's to Germany, with that
> country's draconian
>> disposal/recycling laws, are you sure you really want to take the dumpings
> of the attics and moldy
>> basements of America? If the comment was serious, is there some sort of
> shellac recycling market
>> developed over there?
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Robert Hodge"
>> To:
>> Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 4:58 PM
>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Libraries disposing of records
>>
>>
>> > Well, if it's ANY indicator....
>> >
>> > How many Victor Red seals, green and orange label Columbia's , et al.
>> > get listed on Epay and never garner a single bid- not even for 1 cent.
>> >
>> > How could one expect to " make a fortune" from these record labels when
>> > those are the conditions which prevail ?
>> > !
>> >
>> > BH
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >>>> b_wichert@xxxxxx 1/5/2007 4:48 PM >>>
>> > ...why don't you ship all the 78rpms to Europe (and I speak for
>> > Germany) and
>> > you can make a fortune- instead of discarding them ! ! !
>> >
>>
>