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Re: [ARSCLIST] CD versus Download was "All hail the analogue revolution..."
Tom,OK,this sort of explains the ""Fine-Fairchild",I see on the backs of the early Mercury Lps,as well as the "FF" in popular Lps of the time.Having never read any of the books on the subject.I guess it's safe to assume,this is where many of the famous/classic EmArcy records of the 50s were recorded ? I am aware the second earliest JATPs came out on Mercury,so a connection between Granz and the Fine Family is no surprise.All of the Norgran/Clef/Verve records of the period,I can recall seeing,were mastered by Rudy Van Gelder,did he work for your dad in some capacity ?This also leads me to wonder if they had a hand in pressing the Prestige,and Blue note records of the period.
Tom Fine <tflists@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: Hi Roger:
No, Capitol had a NYC studio from at least the mid-50's if not earlier. I think Goran Finnberg said
earlier on this list that they had a NYC studio from the late 40's onward. Capitol NYC was used to
make many of their own records plus records for Mercury, Impulse!, I think Prestige and I think a
few other labels. For the "Birth of Cool" sessions, it could well have been that Capitol's own
studio was booked with something more likely to be profitable, like a pop session. Remember, these
sides did not sell very many copies in their day.
711 5th Avenue has an interesting history. It was RCA/NBC's network radio studios before Rockefeller
Center was built. Then it was home to World Broadcasting Co, a transcription service with some
unique and advanced cutting techniques. Then sometime after WWII, MGM bought the building and moved
their radio studios into that same space. When MGM bought 51% of Fine Sound/PerspectaSound in 1952,
the company was retooled as a major film-sound facility to do MGM and other studios' pictures in
PerspectaSound (see widescreenmuseum.com for plenty of details on PerspectaSound). The newly minted
Fine Sound was moved to 711 5th, which worked out OK since WMGM was not longer producing radio
dramas or live music on a regular basis and thus did not need the big studios. Since my father had a
lot of clients in the music-recording business, and was consulting engineer to Mercury, the studios
were also used to record many sessions for Mercury, Verve and other labels, as well as for
pre-broadcast sound recordings for Patti Page's TV show and other such things. The facilities were
really nice for that time. Big, 2-story studios (A and B), isolated from the building, with matching
custom 12-channel RCA consoles and many options to get optimal recordings. Two live echo chambers in
the building's eves (sp?). A very advanced film-sound facility (studio C) and a large disk-mastering
suite. In 1956 MGM sold the building to Columbia Pictures and they opted to convert Studio A into a
screening room. The studio was not viable without Studio A. Fine Sound then shut down in late 1956.
Some of the equipment -- most notably the custom Western Electric/MGM all-passive film-mixing
console from studio C and one of the RCA consoles which had been converted to 3 channel -- ended up
later at Fine Recording, which was located in the Great Northern Hotel. Coca-Cola Co. acquired the
building as part of Columbia Pictures. They sold the movie studio to Sony in the 80's or 90's but
kept the building, which is now known as the Coca-Cola Building.
As for Mercury recordings done at Fine Sound, I'm not sure. Definitely some pop and jazz and perhaps
some of the chamber-music classical stuff. The other big business at Fine Sound was mastering. In
1955, according to an ad for AudioTape featuring the studio, more than half of the
non-Columbia/non-RCA/non-Decca records made in the US were mastered at Fine Sound. Most of the Verve
sessions held in NYC in the period 1953-1956 were done at Fine Sound. Also all the Grand Award
records were made there, as well as some other stuff. I do not know all the movies mixed there, but
it was many.
-- Tom Fine
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger and Allison Kulp"
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 12:55 PM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] CD versus Download was "All hail the analogue revolution..."
> There is an excerpt from John Szwed's book "So What" ,on the web,that suggests the WMGM studios,on
> Fifth Avenue was contracted by Capitol,to record the Miles Davis,Gerry Mulligan,etc. sessions.I
> have a book on the history of Capitol,done for thier fiftieth anniversary,in storage somewheres.I
> don't believe they had the funds to buy east coast studios,until they hooked up with EMI,later in
> the 50s.I wasn't aware your dad bought the studios.What was done there for Mercury ?
> Roger Kulp
> Tom Fine wrote: To my ears, the originals are much better. But an
> interesting story.
> "Birth of the Cool" sessions were recorded at WMGM radio's music studio, later Fine Sound studio
> 711 5th Avenue. For some reason, none of the discographies or reissue CD's specifies the studio,
> even though the WMGM logo is clearly visible on the RCA ribbon microphones in the pictures. One of
> the key things about those recordings was that the band sat in a near circle with one or two mics
> picking them up. Pictures show one mic on the piano and one over Max Roach's drums. Drums don't
> overload the recording because they're behind a baffle (an old radio baffle with a real-deal
> so everyone could see each other). A classic example of a long-enduring recording made with very
> simple means. That music was very much avante garde in its day. I must say it's not my all-time
> favorite but it sure had a far-reaching influence in the jazz world. One question I've always had
> about those sessions is, why at WMGM? Capitol had their own studio in NY? Were these sessions
> self-financed and then sold as finished sides to Capitol?
> -- Tom Fine
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lou Judson"
> Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 11:40 AM
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] CD versus Download was "All hail the analogue revolution..."
> See this: very interesting story on NPR yesteday, re-creating the kind
> of music from the Birth of the Cool:
> Cool jazz is very much alive today! and the comments abotu how the new
> cool was accepted when it first came out is fascinating - the world
> agreed with Mr Barr at that time - but look at the legs on that music
> now, getting longer and stronger all the time...
> Lou Judson ï¿½ Intuitive Audio
> On Oct 2, 2006, at 7:09 AM, Aaron Levinson wrote:
>> I must take issue with Steven's dubious assertions about modern Jazz. To suggest that the music
>> Miles Davis, Charlie Parker,
>> Thelonious Monk, etc was somehow inferior to "Dixieland" is simply absurd. Dixieland does NOT
>> in any meaningful way while "Kind Of Blue" continues to sell to every successive generation that
>> discovers its
>> unearthly beauty. One man's opinion may be just that but to denigrate all developments in jazz
>> after Benny Goodman is an
>> insult to many listeners the world over and to the contributions of the artists themselves. If
>> like Dixieland
>> fine but do not use this archaic form as a pedestal to disparage the work of hundreds of artists
>> who are among
>> the most talented people that America has ever produced. Anyone that has heard Coltrane with
>> Johnny Hartman
>> would immediately agree that Steven's suggestion that he eschewed "familiar, ear-catching tunes"
>> is not just
>> a shallow statement it also patently false. Finally, Steven damns modern jazz for its
>> "introspection". In an age
>> as loud, abrasive and glitzy as today music or anything for that matter, that encourages
>> seems to me an excellent antidote for the self-absorbed materialism that has suffused our
>> When I need a respite from a
>> world gone quite mad, Miles Davis playing "Someday My Prince Will Come" is a guaranteed moment of
>> profound introspection and ageless wonder. I suggest it to anyone that appreciates great art.
>> steven c wrote:
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Cox"
>>>> In rock and pop, by and large the performer is the focus, and most of
>>>> the material is composed by the performers. So one might buy a studio
>>>> recording and a live concert recording, and that is it.
>>> That is a practice which has only existed for just over (about) forty
>>> years! IIRC, the Beatles were the first pop artists to write the vast
>>> majority of the tunes they recorded (and they had the advantage of
>>> being talented songwriters...one not granted to most of their ilk!)
>>> Prior to that point (even during the heyday of "rock'n'roll!") if
>>> one was a song PERFORMER one contacted a WRITER to see what songs
>>> might be available to record. The problem to-day is that for the
>>> most part being a talented performer does NOT guarantee that one
>>> is an equally talented songwriter!
>>>> For a Beethoven sonata, or a Cole Porter song, each performer has
>>>> something different to tell you about the music, as each actor does
>>>> about Hamlet or Macbeth. Add to that the changes in performance styles
>>>> over the years, and it does make sense to own several versions of a
>>>> major work.
>>> See above...
>>>> Whether it makes sense to buy the latest offering by some young "star"
>>>> at full price, I doubt.
>>> It probably doesn't. Many "stars" are selected by record-industry
>>> "honchos" for reasons that have little or nothing to do with their
>>> musical talent (or, usually, lack thereof...) but simply seem to
>>> offer a possibility of selling large amounts of "product!"
>>> As well, as recorded music more and more becomes a product of
>>> technology, as opposed to any extant musical talent, the resulting
>>> "product" takes on a distinct similarity...again, aimed at saleability
>>> as opposed to musical quality. At some point in the not-too-distant
>>> future, it may be possible to create "superstars" that exist only
>>> as bytes and bits somewhere in the half-vast "IT Division!"
>>>> I think the number of listeners to classical music is increasing, not
>>>> decreasing. Comparing an issue of The Gramophone from the 70s to a
>>>> current issue, there are far more releases, ten times as many labels,
>>>> and no shortage of excellent new recordings. After all, there is more
>>>> money around today than there was then.
>>> But...the demand is primarily for the same relative handful of familiar
>>> classical works! I assume there are still classical works being composed...
>>> however, I would guess they are either extensively derivative of older
>>> classical music...or so experimantal as to sail over the heads of the
>>> potential purchasers. Most of what is heard on classical-music radio
>>> is at the very least close to a century old...and generally two to
>>> four centuries old...
>>>>> Hey, my sympathies are with you. It's the same with jazz -- aside from
>>>>> the fact that the genre has been hijacked to large extent by the
>>>>> "museum music" crowd.
>>>> I think jazz pretty well died when it became a genre.
>>> Jazz began to die out when be-bop made it 1) more introspective than
>>> entertaining, and 2) effectively impossible to dance to! In fact, that
>>> is why "dixieland jazz" still survives...simple, often familiar tunes,
>>> an obvious and ear-catching rhythm listeners can dance or clap their
>>> hands to...and a sense of fun! Note that all of these qualities are
>>> either absent or hard-to-hear in, say, a Coltrane album/performance...
>>> One interesting side thought (on which I have so far no opinion...)
>>> As a "survivor" of the sixties, I lived through (and enjoyed, as
>>> near as I can remember) the musical developments that were both
>>> inspired (for the artists) and enjoyed (for the listeners) by
>>> the "mind-altering" drugs of the period. Now, the "drug of choice"
>>> for jazz musicians for most, if not all, of the pre-WWII period
>>> was, of course, good ol' C2H5OH (or, during prohibition, occasionally
>>> CH3OH...). During the "bop era" and thereafter, many jazz musicians
>>> were into heroin and similar opiates. What effect did that have on
>>> how jazz developed...?!
>>> Steven C. Barr
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